StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Oct 16, 2018 · 22m · top-founders

1179 Why Co-Founder of $20m ARR Company Took Sabbatical to Write "Dream Teams"

Shane Snow · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, Contently co-founder Shane Snow discusses scaling the SaaS platform to $20 million in ARR, stepping down as CMO, and the principles of cognitive friction and collaboration detailed in his book, Dream Teams.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 27% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.3 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 0.8 Nathan pushing back 1.8
05100:0010:0020:001:19–5:21 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Shane Snow and Contently Nathan efficiently drills Shane on core SaaS metrics including customer count, average deal size, and capital raised. He successfully deduces Contently's ARR at twenty million dollars before Shane confirms it.5:23–8:44 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Stepping Down as CMO to Write Dream Teams Shane details the self-awareness behind stepping down as CMO and transitioning to an advisory role to write his book. Nathan lets Shane explain his reasoning with minimal interjections.8:44–11:42 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Securing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the Afterword Nathan prompts Shane on landing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the book afterword. Shane shares the story of reciprocity stemming from a viral LinkedIn essay.11:45–14:51 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Wright Brothers and Cognitive Friction in Problem Solving Shane educates the audience on cognitive friction and perspective switching using the Wright brothers' debate methods. Nathan primarily listens while clarifying context.14:53–19:43 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 M&A Lessons: Daimler-Chrysler's Silence vs. Wu-Tang's Battles Nathan offers a direct challenge asking why Shane didn't highlight AOL Time Warner instead of Daimler Chrysler. Shane defends his case study selection and delivers a nuanced masterclass on organizational silence versus constructive battle in Wu-Tang.19:43–21:53 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five and Personal Reflections Nathan guides Shane through standard rapid-fire questions covering personal habits, books, and reflections. Shane answers directly in an open and reflective manner.1:19–5:21 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Shane Snow and Contently Nathan efficiently drills Shane on core SaaS metrics including customer count, average deal size, and capital raised. He successfully deduces Contently's ARR at twenty million dollars before Shane confirms it.5:23–8:44 · Guest teaching 3/10 Stepping Down as CMO to Write Dream Teams Shane details the self-awareness behind stepping down as CMO and transitioning to an advisory role to write his book. Nathan lets Shane explain his reasoning with minimal interjections.8:44–11:42 · Guest teaching 3/10 Securing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the Afterword Nathan prompts Shane on landing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the book afterword. Shane shares the story of reciprocity stemming from a viral LinkedIn essay.11:45–14:51 · Guest teaching 6/10 The Wright Brothers and Cognitive Friction in Problem Solving Shane educates the audience on cognitive friction and perspective switching using the Wright brothers' debate methods. Nathan primarily listens while clarifying context.14:53–19:43 · Guest teaching 6/10 M&A Lessons: Daimler-Chrysler's Silence vs. Wu-Tang's Battles Nathan offers a direct challenge asking why Shane didn't highlight AOL Time Warner instead of Daimler Chrysler. Shane defends his case study selection and delivers a nuanced masterclass on organizational silence versus constructive battle in Wu-Tang.19:43–21:53 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five and Personal Reflections Nathan guides Shane through standard rapid-fire questions covering personal habits, books, and reflections. Shane answers directly in an open and reflective manner.1:19–5:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Shane Snow and Contently Nathan efficiently drills Shane on core SaaS metrics including customer count, average deal size, and capital raised. He successfully deduces Contently's ARR at twenty million dollars before Shane confirms it.5:23–8:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Stepping Down as CMO to Write Dream Teams Shane details the self-awareness behind stepping down as CMO and transitioning to an advisory role to write his book. Nathan lets Shane explain his reasoning with minimal interjections.8:44–11:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Securing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the Afterword Nathan prompts Shane on landing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the book afterword. Shane shares the story of reciprocity stemming from a viral LinkedIn essay.11:45–14:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Wright Brothers and Cognitive Friction in Problem Solving Shane educates the audience on cognitive friction and perspective switching using the Wright brothers' debate methods. Nathan primarily listens while clarifying context.14:53–19:43 · Guest disagreement 2/10 M&A Lessons: Daimler-Chrysler's Silence vs. Wu-Tang's Battles Nathan offers a direct challenge asking why Shane didn't highlight AOL Time Warner instead of Daimler Chrysler. Shane defends his case study selection and delivers a nuanced masterclass on organizational silence versus constructive battle in Wu-Tang.19:43–21:53 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five and Personal Reflections Nathan guides Shane through standard rapid-fire questions covering personal habits, books, and reflections. Shane answers directly in an open and reflective manner.1:19–5:21 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Shane Snow and Contently Nathan efficiently drills Shane on core SaaS metrics including customer count, average deal size, and capital raised. He successfully deduces Contently's ARR at twenty million dollars before Shane confirms it.5:23–8:44 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Stepping Down as CMO to Write Dream Teams Shane details the self-awareness behind stepping down as CMO and transitioning to an advisory role to write his book. Nathan lets Shane explain his reasoning with minimal interjections.8:44–11:42 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Securing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the Afterword Nathan prompts Shane on landing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the book afterword. Shane shares the story of reciprocity stemming from a viral LinkedIn essay.11:45–14:51 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Wright Brothers and Cognitive Friction in Problem Solving Shane educates the audience on cognitive friction and perspective switching using the Wright brothers' debate methods. Nathan primarily listens while clarifying context.14:53–19:43 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 M&A Lessons: Daimler-Chrysler's Silence vs. Wu-Tang's Battles Nathan offers a direct challenge asking why Shane didn't highlight AOL Time Warner instead of Daimler Chrysler. Shane defends his case study selection and delivers a nuanced masterclass on organizational silence versus constructive battle in Wu-Tang.19:43–21:53 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five and Personal Reflections Nathan guides Shane through standard rapid-fire questions covering personal habits, books, and reflections. Shane answers directly in an open and reflective manner.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%0:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%3:00 · Nathan 21% · guest 79%3:00 · Nathan 21% · guest 79%6:00 · Nathan 9.6% · guest 90.4%6:00 · Nathan 9.6% · guest 90.4%9:00 · Nathan 50% · guest 50%9:00 · Nathan 50% · guest 50%12:00 · Nathan 7.6% · guest 92.4%12:00 · Nathan 7.6% · guest 92.4%15:00 · Nathan 10.2% · guest 89.8%15:00 · Nathan 10.2% · guest 89.8%18:00 · Nathan 9.6% · guest 90.4%18:00 · Nathan 9.6% · guest 90.4%21:00 · Nathan 62.3% · guest 37.7%21:00 · Nathan 62.3% · guest 37.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:59 Shane rejects Nathan's AOL Time Warner comparison

Shane firmly pushes back against Nathan's counter-proposal of AOL Time Warner, explaining why Daimler Chrysler serves as a cleaner case study.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 15:55 Nathan challenges Shane's merger case study selection

Nathan directly halts Shane to demand why he did not pick the AOL Time Warner merger as the quintessential failed acquisition.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:45 Shane breaks down organizational silence in M&A failure

Shane reframes conventional wisdom about culture clashes, educating on how politeness and organizational silence actually ruin mergers.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 4:59 Nathan nails Contently's exact ARR figure

Nathan demonstrates sharp domain expertise by calculating and accurately guessing Contently's ARR at twenty million dollars before Shane reveals the number.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Shane Snow and Contently 6112 Nathan efficiently drills Shane on core SaaS metrics including customer count, average deal size, and capital raised. He successfully deduces Contently's ARR at twenty million dollars before Shane confirms it.
Stepping Down as CMO to Write Dream Teams 2311 Shane details the self-awareness behind stepping down as CMO and transitioning to an advisory role to write his book. Nathan lets Shane explain his reasoning with minimal interjections.
Securing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the Afterword 2301 Nathan prompts Shane on landing Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant for the book afterword. Shane shares the story of reciprocity stemming from a viral LinkedIn essay.
The Wright Brothers and Cognitive Friction in Problem Solving 2611 Shane educates the audience on cognitive friction and perspective switching using the Wright brothers' debate methods. Nathan primarily listens while clarifying context.
M&A Lessons: Daimler-Chrysler's Silence vs. Wu-Tang's Battles 5625 Nathan offers a direct challenge asking why Shane didn't highlight AOL Time Warner instead of Daimler Chrysler. Shane defends his case study selection and delivers a nuanced masterclass on organizational silence versus constructive battle in Wu-Tang.
The Famous Five and Personal Reflections 3101 Nathan guides Shane through standard rapid-fire questions covering personal habits, books, and reflections. Shane answers directly in an open and reflective manner.

Statements from this episode (6)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Snow: Contently validated SaaS model by selling 13 subscriptions at $1K
“My partners and I deciding to do a test to start selling some features of the project management tool for a monthly fee of a thousand dollars, and when we sold 13 in the first month, we said, okay this is the business, and here we are.”
Shane Snow Oct 16, 2018 ▶ 2:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Snow: Contently enterprise customers pay $6,000 to $10,000 monthly
“Six to 10,000.”
Shane Snow Oct 16, 2018 ▶ 4:05
Assertion Partly supported
Snow: Contently raised $20M, one quarter of competitor funding
“We've raised twenty million dollars in total which is about a quarter of any of our competitors which is great for us because we're, you know, similar size and have an outsized presence in presence in our own content marketing.”
Shane Snow Oct 16, 2018 ▶ 4:19
Disclosure
Snow: Took two-month sabbatical so team would stop bypassing new CMO
“So I realized that I was not the CMO that was going to take our company to the next step function. So I hired a replacement and after a month of getting her up to speed, I wanted people to stop going around me. And really for the mantle to fall on her. And so …”
Shane Snow Oct 16, 2018 ▶ 8:15
Assertion Contradicted
Snow: Wright brothers forced themselves to switch debate sides during intense arguments
“What their rule was is whatever side that Wilbur had took in the morning, he had to take the other side in the afternoon and vice versa. So when they got to the point where they were going to kill each other, they had to switch sides.”
Shane Snow Oct 16, 2018 ▶ 13:19
Insight
Snow: Organizational silence kills most mergers, not cultural conflict
“Is what, when you dig deep, what normally kills most mergers, and most synergy in mergers, is they, ah, they didn't, ah, they actually, they had what was called organizational silence.”
Shane Snow Oct 16, 2018 ▶ 17:26
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more