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Dec 25, 2018 · 18m · top-founders

1249 Hireology Passes $20m in ARR, Helping 5000+ Businesses Hire Better

Adam Robinson · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this founder interview, Hireology CEO Adam Robinson joins Nathan Latka to discuss scaling their talent technology platform past $20 million in ARR across 5,000 decentralized business locations. Robinson details their capital-efficient customer acquisition, per-location pricing model, programmatic advertising expansion, and key SaaS operating benchmarks.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:001:28–5:36 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Hireology Overview and Market Positioning Nathan highlights the challenge of maintaining a $250-$300 ARPU tier without getting trapped between high-touch and self-serve sales. Robinson clarifies that franchise owners bundle multiple independent LLC locations together, resulting in higher actual deal sizes.5:37–8:07 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Capital Efficiency, Growth Targets, and Thought Leadership CAC Nathan quickly computes the implied CAC of $3,000 to $5,000 directly from Robinson's target 10-11 month payback period. Robinson explains their reliance on book publishing and thought leadership speaking to drive cost-effective acquisition.8:10–12:50 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan benchmarks Hireology against peers like iCIMS and Zenefits and cites the $15B recruitment ad spend market. Robinson details their programmatic recruitment product, Applicant Engine.12:51–15:49 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Retention, Product Packaging, and Distributed Team Operations Nathan attempts to calculate a baseline 3-year LTV, but Robinson brushes aside theoretical SaaS metrics as unproductive navel-gazing. Robinson stresses the strategic importance of starting with lightweight packages to prevent churn.15:50–17:32 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up proceeds briskly with straightforward questions regarding reading habits, sleep schedule, and advice to Robinson's younger self.1:28–5:36 · Guest teaching 4/10 Hireology Overview and Market Positioning Nathan highlights the challenge of maintaining a $250-$300 ARPU tier without getting trapped between high-touch and self-serve sales. Robinson clarifies that franchise owners bundle multiple independent LLC locations together, resulting in higher actual deal sizes.5:37–8:07 · Guest teaching 2/10 Capital Efficiency, Growth Targets, and Thought Leadership CAC Nathan quickly computes the implied CAC of $3,000 to $5,000 directly from Robinson's target 10-11 month payback period. Robinson explains their reliance on book publishing and thought leadership speaking to drive cost-effective acquisition.8:10–12:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan benchmarks Hireology against peers like iCIMS and Zenefits and cites the $15B recruitment ad spend market. Robinson details their programmatic recruitment product, Applicant Engine.12:51–15:49 · Guest teaching 4/10 Retention, Product Packaging, and Distributed Team Operations Nathan attempts to calculate a baseline 3-year LTV, but Robinson brushes aside theoretical SaaS metrics as unproductive navel-gazing. Robinson stresses the strategic importance of starting with lightweight packages to prevent churn.15:50–17:32 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up proceeds briskly with straightforward questions regarding reading habits, sleep schedule, and advice to Robinson's younger self.1:28–5:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Hireology Overview and Market Positioning Nathan highlights the challenge of maintaining a $250-$300 ARPU tier without getting trapped between high-touch and self-serve sales. Robinson clarifies that franchise owners bundle multiple independent LLC locations together, resulting in higher actual deal sizes.5:37–8:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Capital Efficiency, Growth Targets, and Thought Leadership CAC Nathan quickly computes the implied CAC of $3,000 to $5,000 directly from Robinson's target 10-11 month payback period. Robinson explains their reliance on book publishing and thought leadership speaking to drive cost-effective acquisition.8:10–12:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan benchmarks Hireology against peers like iCIMS and Zenefits and cites the $15B recruitment ad spend market. Robinson details their programmatic recruitment product, Applicant Engine.12:51–15:49 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Retention, Product Packaging, and Distributed Team Operations Nathan attempts to calculate a baseline 3-year LTV, but Robinson brushes aside theoretical SaaS metrics as unproductive navel-gazing. Robinson stresses the strategic importance of starting with lightweight packages to prevent churn.15:50–17:32 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up proceeds briskly with straightforward questions regarding reading habits, sleep schedule, and advice to Robinson's younger self.1:28–5:36 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Hireology Overview and Market Positioning Nathan highlights the challenge of maintaining a $250-$300 ARPU tier without getting trapped between high-touch and self-serve sales. Robinson clarifies that franchise owners bundle multiple independent LLC locations together, resulting in higher actual deal sizes.5:37–8:07 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Capital Efficiency, Growth Targets, and Thought Leadership CAC Nathan quickly computes the implied CAC of $3,000 to $5,000 directly from Robinson's target 10-11 month payback period. Robinson explains their reliance on book publishing and thought leadership speaking to drive cost-effective acquisition.8:10–12:50 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan benchmarks Hireology against peers like iCIMS and Zenefits and cites the $15B recruitment ad spend market. Robinson details their programmatic recruitment product, Applicant Engine.12:51–15:49 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Retention, Product Packaging, and Distributed Team Operations Nathan attempts to calculate a baseline 3-year LTV, but Robinson brushes aside theoretical SaaS metrics as unproductive navel-gazing. Robinson stresses the strategic importance of starting with lightweight packages to prevent churn.15:50–17:32 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up proceeds briskly with straightforward questions regarding reading habits, sleep schedule, and advice to Robinson's younger self.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 70.2% · guest 29.8%0:00 · Nathan 70.2% · guest 29.8%3:00 · Nathan 31.9% · guest 68.1%3:00 · Nathan 31.9% · guest 68.1%6:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%6:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%9:00 · Nathan 49.3% · guest 50.7%9:00 · Nathan 49.3% · guest 50.7%12:00 · Nathan 20.8% · guest 79.2%12:00 · Nathan 20.8% · guest 79.2%15:00 · Nathan 35.3% · guest 64.7%15:00 · Nathan 35.3% · guest 64.7%18:00 · Nathan 96% · guest 4%18:00 · Nathan 96% · guest 4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:25 Pushing back on theoretical LTV calculations

Robinson rejects Nathan's framing around strict LTV metrics, characterizing theoretical SaaS calculations as unproductive navel-gazing instead of focusing on customer delivery.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 4:26 Challenging the viability of sub-$300 ARPU

Nathan challenges Robinson's $250-$300 blended ARPU, noting that price point is notoriously difficult because it is too cheap for high-touch sales but too expensive for pure self-serve.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:44 Explaining decentralized multi-unit franchisee structures

Robinson educates Nathan on why their pricing model functions differently, explaining that single owners operate multiple distinct LLCs requiring a customized tech stack.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 6:55 Instantaneous CAC deduction from payback window

Nathan shows strong financial fluency by immediately backing out an acquisition cost figure of $3,000 to $5,000 based on Robinson's reported payback period and monthly fee.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Hireology Overview and Market Positioning 5413 Nathan highlights the challenge of maintaining a $250-$300 ARPU tier without getting trapped between high-touch and self-serve sales. Robinson clarifies that franchise owners bundle multiple independent LLC locations together, resulting in higher actual deal sizes.
Capital Efficiency, Growth Targets, and Thought Leadership CAC 6212 Nathan quickly computes the implied CAC of $3,000 to $5,000 directly from Robinson's target 10-11 month payback period. Robinson explains their reliance on book publishing and thought leadership speaking to drive cost-effective acquisition.
Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management 5212 Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan benchmarks Hireology against peers like iCIMS and Zenefits and cites the $15B recruitment ad spend market. Robinson details their programmatic recruitment product, Applicant Engine.
Retention, Product Packaging, and Distributed Team Operations 4432 Nathan attempts to calculate a baseline 3-year LTV, but Robinson brushes aside theoretical SaaS metrics as unproductive navel-gazing. Robinson stresses the strategic importance of starting with lightweight packages to prevent churn.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 1111 The rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up proceeds briskly with straightforward questions regarding reading habits, sleep schedule, and advice to Robinson's younger self.

Statements from this episode (12)

Disclosure
Hireology generated nearly $17M GAAP revenue in 2017 and $9M in 2016
“We were just a shade under seventeen million of gap revenue in in 17 and just under nine in 2016.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 1:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
One in nine US new car dealerships uses Hireology
“One in nine new car dealerships in the United States run higher ology to build and keep their teams.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 2:27
Disclosure
Hireology is used by over 130 franchise brands across 5,000 locations
“We're in over a 130 franchise brands and 5000 owned and operated locations individually that are part of some branded network.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 2:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hireology generates $250 to $300 per month per location
“Blended, you're looking at about 250 to 300 dollars a month.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 4:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hireology account owners average 4 to 6 locations, paying $1,500-$2,000 monthly
“The average, you owner in some of our largest markets owned four to six locations. So that, that location, our pool of 300 bucks really is more like 1500 to 2000 dollars.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 4:44
Insight
Multi-location SMBs require distinct tech stacks due to separate LLC structures
“And what's different in our markets and the reason why it's you know, tough, tough to get into this space is because those four locations are typically operated as four independent LLCs. With four different ownership structures. Maybe owned by a common holding…”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 5:05
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Hireology aims to grow ARR from $20M to $27M by year-end
“20 now, 27 at the end.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 6:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hireology's core sales CAC payback is under 11 months
“Generally we loved 10 to 11 month paybacks, you know, and if you're, if we're fully loading in customer success and support, sometimes we do it, sometimes we don't, depends on the analysis we're running, you know, that'll stretch it a little longer, but on cor…”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 6:56
Prediction Didn’t hold up
Programmatic advertising will dominate the recruitment ad market within five years
“Programmatic is going to own that market in five years. And it's companies like ours and ICIMS and others that are going to help customers do that.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 12:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hireology maintains over 90% annual net revenue retention
“90 plus percent net revenue retention annually.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 12:53
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Hireology expects to surpass 100% net revenue retention by late 2019
“And in fact, we expect to do that by the end of next year.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 13:13
Insight
Selling complete product bundles upfront increases churn if features go unused
“What we've learned over the years is even if we have the opportunity to sell a customer, everything we probably shouldn't because they're going to churn if they're paying for stuff they don't use or see the value.”
Adam Robinson Dec 25, 2018 ▶ 13:30
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