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Jan 6, 2019 · 19m · top-founders

1261 How He Went from $0 to $4k/mo Helping Brands Track Customer Facing Video

Shai Wolkomir · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken Podcast Intro Snippet · 5s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, Nathan Latka interviews Fleeq founder Shai Wolkomir about pivoting from a mobile SDK startup to building an interactive video platform generating $4,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Shai breaks down Fleeq's unit economics, seat-based pricing, and how he leveraged AppSumo capital and lean marketing to scale his four-person team.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 4.8
05100:0010:001:25–4:29 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Shai Wolkomir and Fleeq Nathan prompts Shai to explain Fleeq's product model and pricing. When Shai begins listing varied cohort sizes, Nathan nudges him to provide concrete average revenue figures.4:29–8:46 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Pivoting from Elasticode to Fleeq Nathan cuts through mixed metrics when Shai blends free users, lifetime deals, and monthly seats. Nathan forces Shai to isolate only true monthly paying SaaS customers.8:49–11:33 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Sponsor Message: Gusto Payroll and HR Following the sponsor ad, Nathan strongly reprimands Shai for including one-time AppSumo revenue into his run rate calculations, forcing Shai to concede.11:34–14:52 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition Channels and CAC Metrics Nathan tries to compute unit economics on the fly assuming lead cost equals CAC. Shai corrects him by explaining that an 8% freemium conversion rate increases actual CAC to $40-$60 with a 6-month payback.14:52–17:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Capital Structure and Funding Dynamics Nathan probes how a team of four survives on minimal monthly revenue. Shai clarifies their cash position through AppSumo net margins, upsells, and remaining capital from their previous pivot.17:40–19:17 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions A straightforward rapid-fire question segment covering personal habits, sleep routines, and founding advice.1:25–4:29 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Shai Wolkomir and Fleeq Nathan prompts Shai to explain Fleeq's product model and pricing. When Shai begins listing varied cohort sizes, Nathan nudges him to provide concrete average revenue figures.4:29–8:46 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pivoting from Elasticode to Fleeq Nathan cuts through mixed metrics when Shai blends free users, lifetime deals, and monthly seats. Nathan forces Shai to isolate only true monthly paying SaaS customers.8:49–11:33 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sponsor Message: Gusto Payroll and HR Following the sponsor ad, Nathan strongly reprimands Shai for including one-time AppSumo revenue into his run rate calculations, forcing Shai to concede.11:34–14:52 · Guest teaching 5/10 Customer Acquisition Channels and CAC Metrics Nathan tries to compute unit economics on the fly assuming lead cost equals CAC. Shai corrects him by explaining that an 8% freemium conversion rate increases actual CAC to $40-$60 with a 6-month payback.14:52–17:40 · Guest teaching 4/10 Capital Structure and Funding Dynamics Nathan probes how a team of four survives on minimal monthly revenue. Shai clarifies their cash position through AppSumo net margins, upsells, and remaining capital from their previous pivot.17:40–19:17 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions A straightforward rapid-fire question segment covering personal habits, sleep routines, and founding advice.1:25–4:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Shai Wolkomir and Fleeq Nathan prompts Shai to explain Fleeq's product model and pricing. When Shai begins listing varied cohort sizes, Nathan nudges him to provide concrete average revenue figures.4:29–8:46 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Pivoting from Elasticode to Fleeq Nathan cuts through mixed metrics when Shai blends free users, lifetime deals, and monthly seats. Nathan forces Shai to isolate only true monthly paying SaaS customers.8:49–11:33 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Sponsor Message: Gusto Payroll and HR Following the sponsor ad, Nathan strongly reprimands Shai for including one-time AppSumo revenue into his run rate calculations, forcing Shai to concede.11:34–14:52 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Customer Acquisition Channels and CAC Metrics Nathan tries to compute unit economics on the fly assuming lead cost equals CAC. Shai corrects him by explaining that an 8% freemium conversion rate increases actual CAC to $40-$60 with a 6-month payback.14:52–17:40 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Capital Structure and Funding Dynamics Nathan probes how a team of four survives on minimal monthly revenue. Shai clarifies their cash position through AppSumo net margins, upsells, and remaining capital from their previous pivot.17:40–19:17 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions A straightforward rapid-fire question segment covering personal habits, sleep routines, and founding advice.1:25–4:29 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Shai Wolkomir and Fleeq Nathan prompts Shai to explain Fleeq's product model and pricing. When Shai begins listing varied cohort sizes, Nathan nudges him to provide concrete average revenue figures.4:29–8:46 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Pivoting from Elasticode to Fleeq Nathan cuts through mixed metrics when Shai blends free users, lifetime deals, and monthly seats. Nathan forces Shai to isolate only true monthly paying SaaS customers.8:49–11:33 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Sponsor Message: Gusto Payroll and HR Following the sponsor ad, Nathan strongly reprimands Shai for including one-time AppSumo revenue into his run rate calculations, forcing Shai to concede.11:34–14:52 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Acquisition Channels and CAC Metrics Nathan tries to compute unit economics on the fly assuming lead cost equals CAC. Shai corrects him by explaining that an 8% freemium conversion rate increases actual CAC to $40-$60 with a 6-month payback.14:52–17:40 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Capital Structure and Funding Dynamics Nathan probes how a team of four survives on minimal monthly revenue. Shai clarifies their cash position through AppSumo net margins, upsells, and remaining capital from their previous pivot.17:40–19:17 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions A straightforward rapid-fire question segment covering personal habits, sleep routines, and founding advice.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 57% · guest 43%0:00 · Nathan 57% · guest 43%3:00 · Nathan 12.3% · guest 87.7%3:00 · Nathan 12.3% · guest 87.7%6:00 · Nathan 34.3% · guest 65.7%6:00 · Nathan 34.3% · guest 65.7%9:00 · Nathan 76.3% · guest 23.7%9:00 · Nathan 76.3% · guest 23.7%12:00 · Nathan 35.9% · guest 64.1%12:00 · Nathan 35.9% · guest 64.1%15:00 · Nathan 35% · guest 65%15:00 · Nathan 35% · guest 65%18:00 · Nathan 66.3% · guest 33.7%18:00 · Nathan 66.3% · guest 33.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:52 Shai counters Nathan's unit economics assumption

Shai rejects Nathan's simplistic payback math with 'Well, yes and no,' insisting on properly factoring in the 8% freemium conversion multiplier.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:26 Nathan rejects AppSumo in run rate

Nathan aggressively refuses Shai's metric framing, telling him that counting one-time AppSumo deals in an ARR run rate is 'just lying to yourself.'

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:52 Shai breaks down freemium conversion to CAC

Shai educates Nathan on why their low lead acquisition cost actually scales up to a $50-$60 CAC once freemium drop-off is accounted for.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:39 Nathan lays down SaaS accounting standards

Nathan demonstrates financial expertise by explaining why dead, one-off payments cannot be projected as recurring run rate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Shai Wolkomir and Fleeq 4313 Nathan prompts Shai to explain Fleeq's product model and pricing. When Shai begins listing varied cohort sizes, Nathan nudges him to provide concrete average revenue figures.
Pivoting from Elasticode to Fleeq 6327 Nathan cuts through mixed metrics when Shai blends free users, lifetime deals, and monthly seats. Nathan forces Shai to isolate only true monthly paying SaaS customers.
Sponsor Message: Gusto Payroll and HR 7138 Following the sponsor ad, Nathan strongly reprimands Shai for including one-time AppSumo revenue into his run rate calculations, forcing Shai to concede.
Customer Acquisition Channels and CAC Metrics 6534 Nathan tries to compute unit economics on the fly assuming lead cost equals CAC. Shai corrects him by explaining that an 8% freemium conversion rate increases actual CAC to $40-$60 with a 6-month payback.
Capital Structure and Funding Dynamics 6426 Nathan probes how a team of four survives on minimal monthly revenue. Shai clarifies their cash position through AppSumo net margins, upsells, and remaining capital from their previous pivot.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3101 A straightforward rapid-fire question segment covering personal habits, sleep routines, and founding advice.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wolkomir: Fleeq charges $10 per seat with enterprise contracts up to $20k
“So the price per seat is 10 bucks. So you would see some somewhere between 15 to 22 on the small SMBs, and the big guys pay on an annual base somewhere between three to 20 K.”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 4:10
Insight
Wolkomir: Native mobile app onboarding SDK market is smaller than expected
“The market was not big enough in the sense of mobile is great, but the number of companies that are willing to optimize their product using a third party integration within the mobile native app is much smaller than expected. The, there was no instant gratific…”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 5:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wolkomir: Fleeq has over 10,000 users and 25,000 fleeqs created
“Currently there's a freemium model where more than 10,000 Users on the platform itself, more than 25,000 flicks in the air.”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 6:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wolkomir: Fleeq made more revenue from AppSumo upsells than initial campaign
“We actually have done more money from the AppSumo campaign within the platform itself later on as an upsell.”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 7:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wolkomir: Fleeq has 120 self-service and five enterprise customers
“120 on the self-service, but on the enterprise, which is a whole different pricing, not per seat. There's tons of value there, like single sign on, et cetera. That's a different pricing. We have five enterprises, big enterprises with a whole different pricing …”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 8:16
Insight
Latka: One-time payments must not be included in revenue run rate
“You don't include one time payments in a run rate, because there's not, they're not gonna run. Those payments aren't running anywhere. They're dead. They pay once and it's done.”
Nathan Latka Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 10:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wolkomir: Fleeq gets leads for $3 to $5 via Reply.io
“So on, on what we're seeing basically on the reply.io, it's fairly low. It's somewhere between three to five bucks.”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 12:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wolkomir: Fleeq converts freemium at ~8% with >$200 LTV
“The conversion rate right now is close to eight percent, meaning that it's not four or five bucks. You time, you X that like 12 times, but the LTV for our customers, because the price is very low and the churn is very, it's very low, is more than 200 bucks.”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 13:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wolkomir: Fleeq brought in over $130K net from AppSumo and upsells
“So all in all with AppSales that we've done from the customers that signed up the AppSumo, we've done more than one 30 K.”
Shai Wolkomir Jan 6, 2019 ▶ 16:25
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