StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Jan 26, 2019 · 29m · top-founders

1281 Contently Pays Creators $30m Annually, Passes $20m in ARR 40% yoy growth

Joe Coleman · 17m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Contently co-founder and CEO Joe Coleman to examine how the content marketing platform scaled to $20 million in SaaS ARR and over $30 million in annual creator payouts. Coleman breaks down the company's enterprise unit economics, capital efficiency, multi-division customer retention, and strategic transition from a freelance marketplace to workflow software.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 30.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.9 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 0.8 Nathan pushing back 2.3
05100:0010:0020:000:00–4:06 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Contently Company Highlights and Financial Overview Nathan introduces the company with financial bullet points before letting Joe provide a standard overview of the business model and history.4:06–6:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Scaling the Freelance Marketplace and Payouts Nathan calculates marketplace volume by combining creator payout numbers with the 15% take rate, which Joe verifies as accurate.6:39–9:26 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Evolution from Marketplace to Enterprise SaaS Joe details how customer workflow issues at companies like American Express led them to evolve from a talent network into an enterprise SaaS platform.9:27–11:47 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Enterprise SaaS Pricing, ACV, and Packaging Joe outlines their $60k ACV structure and explains why per-user pricing failed in MarTech, while Nathan categorizes it as a strict enterprise sale.11:47–15:16 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Revenue Recognition and High Margin ARR Breakdown Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS accounting domain knowledge, praising Joe for reporting net pass-through rather than vanity GMV figures.15:19–18:05 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Break: Blinkist App Promotion Segment starts with an ad read, followed by Nathan incorrectly assuming the company is cash flow positive, which Joe politely clarifies.18:05–22:20 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Gross Retention, Net Retention, and Multi-Division Dynamics Nathan challenges the logic of higher logo retention than dollar retention; Joe educates him on enterprise multi-division downgrade dynamics.22:20–27:52 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition Cost and Scaling the Enterprise Engine Nathan presses Joe for hedging on a healthy 8-month CAC payback period before transitioning into the Famous Five rapid fire.0:00–4:06 · Guest teaching 1/10 Contently Company Highlights and Financial Overview Nathan introduces the company with financial bullet points before letting Joe provide a standard overview of the business model and history.4:06–6:37 · Guest teaching 1/10 Scaling the Freelance Marketplace and Payouts Nathan calculates marketplace volume by combining creator payout numbers with the 15% take rate, which Joe verifies as accurate.6:39–9:26 · Guest teaching 2/10 Evolution from Marketplace to Enterprise SaaS Joe details how customer workflow issues at companies like American Express led them to evolve from a talent network into an enterprise SaaS platform.9:27–11:47 · Guest teaching 2/10 Enterprise SaaS Pricing, ACV, and Packaging Joe outlines their $60k ACV structure and explains why per-user pricing failed in MarTech, while Nathan categorizes it as a strict enterprise sale.11:47–15:16 · Guest teaching 1/10 Revenue Recognition and High Margin ARR Breakdown Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS accounting domain knowledge, praising Joe for reporting net pass-through rather than vanity GMV figures.15:19–18:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Break: Blinkist App Promotion Segment starts with an ad read, followed by Nathan incorrectly assuming the company is cash flow positive, which Joe politely clarifies.18:05–22:20 · Guest teaching 6/10 Gross Retention, Net Retention, and Multi-Division Dynamics Nathan challenges the logic of higher logo retention than dollar retention; Joe educates him on enterprise multi-division downgrade dynamics.22:20–27:52 · Guest teaching 1/10 Customer Acquisition Cost and Scaling the Enterprise Engine Nathan presses Joe for hedging on a healthy 8-month CAC payback period before transitioning into the Famous Five rapid fire.0:00–4:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Contently Company Highlights and Financial Overview Nathan introduces the company with financial bullet points before letting Joe provide a standard overview of the business model and history.4:06–6:37 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Scaling the Freelance Marketplace and Payouts Nathan calculates marketplace volume by combining creator payout numbers with the 15% take rate, which Joe verifies as accurate.6:39–9:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Evolution from Marketplace to Enterprise SaaS Joe details how customer workflow issues at companies like American Express led them to evolve from a talent network into an enterprise SaaS platform.9:27–11:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Enterprise SaaS Pricing, ACV, and Packaging Joe outlines their $60k ACV structure and explains why per-user pricing failed in MarTech, while Nathan categorizes it as a strict enterprise sale.11:47–15:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Recognition and High Margin ARR Breakdown Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS accounting domain knowledge, praising Joe for reporting net pass-through rather than vanity GMV figures.15:19–18:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Break: Blinkist App Promotion Segment starts with an ad read, followed by Nathan incorrectly assuming the company is cash flow positive, which Joe politely clarifies.18:05–22:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Gross Retention, Net Retention, and Multi-Division Dynamics Nathan challenges the logic of higher logo retention than dollar retention; Joe educates him on enterprise multi-division downgrade dynamics.22:20–27:52 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Acquisition Cost and Scaling the Enterprise Engine Nathan presses Joe for hedging on a healthy 8-month CAC payback period before transitioning into the Famous Five rapid fire.0:00–4:06 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Contently Company Highlights and Financial Overview Nathan introduces the company with financial bullet points before letting Joe provide a standard overview of the business model and history.4:06–6:37 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Scaling the Freelance Marketplace and Payouts Nathan calculates marketplace volume by combining creator payout numbers with the 15% take rate, which Joe verifies as accurate.6:39–9:26 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Evolution from Marketplace to Enterprise SaaS Joe details how customer workflow issues at companies like American Express led them to evolve from a talent network into an enterprise SaaS platform.9:27–11:47 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Enterprise SaaS Pricing, ACV, and Packaging Joe outlines their $60k ACV structure and explains why per-user pricing failed in MarTech, while Nathan categorizes it as a strict enterprise sale.11:47–15:16 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Revenue Recognition and High Margin ARR Breakdown Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS accounting domain knowledge, praising Joe for reporting net pass-through rather than vanity GMV figures.15:19–18:05 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sponsor Break: Blinkist App Promotion Segment starts with an ad read, followed by Nathan incorrectly assuming the company is cash flow positive, which Joe politely clarifies.18:05–22:20 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Gross Retention, Net Retention, and Multi-Division Dynamics Nathan challenges the logic of higher logo retention than dollar retention; Joe educates him on enterprise multi-division downgrade dynamics.22:20–27:52 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Acquisition Cost and Scaling the Enterprise Engine Nathan presses Joe for hedging on a healthy 8-month CAC payback period before transitioning into the Famous Five rapid fire.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 64.7% · guest 35.3%0:00 · Nathan 64.7% · guest 35.3%3:00 · Nathan 15.8% · guest 84.2%3:00 · Nathan 15.8% · guest 84.2%6:00 · Nathan 11.9% · guest 88.1%6:00 · Nathan 11.9% · guest 88.1%9:00 · Nathan 19.9% · guest 80.1%9:00 · Nathan 19.9% · guest 80.1%12:00 · Nathan 27.7% · guest 72.3%12:00 · Nathan 27.7% · guest 72.3%15:00 · Nathan 58.1% · guest 41.9%15:00 · Nathan 58.1% · guest 41.9%18:00 · Nathan 24.9% · guest 75.1%18:00 · Nathan 24.9% · guest 75.1%21:00 · Nathan 23.4% · guest 76.6%21:00 · Nathan 23.4% · guest 76.6%24:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%24:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%27:00 · Nathan 53.3% · guest 46.7%27:00 · Nathan 53.3% · guest 46.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 20:13 Clarifying logo vs dollar retention contradiction

Joe firmly stands by his retention figures when Nathan interrupts to question whether the metrics make sense.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:57 Nathan challenges inverted retention metrics

Nathan halts the conversation to argue that enterprise dollar retention should normally exceed logo retention unless smaller accounts are dropping.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 20:28 Multi-division enterprise account explanation

Joe explains how losing individual business units inside large conglomerates causes revenue shrinkage without losing the parent logo.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:48 Calling out marketplace revenue manipulation

Nathan demonstrates deep SaaS expertise by articulating exactly how competitors inflate top-line numbers by reporting gross marketplace GMV.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Contently Company Highlights and Financial Overview 3100 Nathan introduces the company with financial bullet points before letting Joe provide a standard overview of the business model and history.
Scaling the Freelance Marketplace and Payouts 6102 Nathan calculates marketplace volume by combining creator payout numbers with the 15% take rate, which Joe verifies as accurate.
Evolution from Marketplace to Enterprise SaaS 4201 Joe details how customer workflow issues at companies like American Express led them to evolve from a talent network into an enterprise SaaS platform.
Enterprise SaaS Pricing, ACV, and Packaging 5201 Joe outlines their $60k ACV structure and explains why per-user pricing failed in MarTech, while Nathan categorizes it as a strict enterprise sale.
Revenue Recognition and High Margin ARR Breakdown 7113 Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS accounting domain knowledge, praising Joe for reporting net pass-through rather than vanity GMV figures.
Sponsor Break: Blinkist App Promotion 2212 Segment starts with an ad read, followed by Nathan incorrectly assuming the company is cash flow positive, which Joe politely clarifies.
Gross Retention, Net Retention, and Multi-Division Dynamics 6625 Nathan challenges the logic of higher logo retention than dollar retention; Joe educates him on enterprise multi-division downgrade dynamics.
Customer Acquisition Cost and Scaling the Enterprise Engine 6124 Nathan presses Joe for hedging on a healthy 8-month CAC payback period before transitioning into the Famous Five rapid fire.

Statements from this episode (16)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Contently's creator network includes 150,000 freelance professionals
“Today that network is around a 150,000 professional journalists, videographers, data researchers, Visual designers have any kind of talent that a brand might need to tell their story in a unique format is in that network.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 2:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Contently counts seven of the ten most valuable brands as customers
“We work with a big chunk of the Fortune 507 of the 10 world's most valuable brands are our customers.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 3:44
Disclosure
Contently pays freelance creators over $30M annually
“So it's well over thirty million dollars now, mid thirty millions in terms of what we're actually paying these creators each year, which is awesome.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 4:33
Disclosure
Contently charges brands a 15% marketplace take rate
“So we take a pretty small rate of whatever the marketplace transactions are. It's typically around 15% depends on a few variables, but that's sort of where it falls. You know, it's typically where it falls falls in line. Although that's, you know, the way it's…”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 5:18
Disclosure
Contently pays creators immediately upon submitting first drafts
“And we do things like make sure that they get paid immediately on the submit of their first draft, which is night and day between what they're used to, where journalists will write a column for a magazine and then wait 90 days to get paid.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 5:53
Disclosure
Contently's average new customer starts at a $60K ACV
“The average customer typically starts with a subscription that's somewhere around 60 K and ACV. And that's just on subscription fees.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 9:40
Insight
Per-user pricing fails in MarTech and collaborative workflows
“We've tried things like per user pricing and all that stuff, and I've come to the conclusion that it just doesn't work very well in MarTech in general, but, you know, particularly in a business like ours where We want as many people on the system as we can get…”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 10:27
Disclosure
Contently has scaled to 200 SaaS customers
“On the SAS side of things, it's around 200.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 11:33
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Contently expects to reach a $20M SaaS ARR run rate
“Fast subscription revenue will end the year at about a, on a twenty million dollar or so run rate and then the content component of that is quite a bit larger.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 12:13
Disclosure
Contently recognizes only its 15% marketplace take as revenue
“What we've decided to do recently is not count the 85% of the dollar that goes to the writer we just count it as pass-through now, and so we count only the 15% that we take”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 12:27
Assertion Supported
Contently has raised $20M in equity over seven years
“We've raised about twenty million dollars in equity over the last seven years or so.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 13:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Contently employs just over 100 people
“Team size wise, we're just over a hundred.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 16:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Contently posted 71% gross and 90% net retention last quarter
“So our churn across the board this has been something we've been working a lot on in last quarter, it was 71% gross retention and about 90% net retention.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 18:17
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Contently exceeds 90% gross retention in its Fortune customer cohort
“Getting it to be the kind of customers where we do really well, Fortune, and when you look at that cohort we're at 90 plus percent gross retention and then net negative on the MRR churn side.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 19:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Contently's fully loaded CAC averages $40,000
“Right now it's about 40,000. It's sort of, Goes between 30 and 50 K.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 22:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Contently's CAC payback period ranges from six to 12 months
“Our payback, it swings anywhere between, you know six months and a year, sort of depending on how we do that quarter and those kinds of things.”
Joe Coleman Jan 26, 2019 ▶ 23:16
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more