Apr 15, 2019 · 24m · top-founders

1360 How He's Shifting Doodle Meeting Tool 200m MAU's to SaaS

Gabriel Ottino · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, Nathan Latka interviews Doodle executive Gabriel Ottino to explore how the popular scheduling platform is converting its massive 200-million-user base from an advertising model into a fast-growing SaaS subscription business.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.9 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.6 Nathan pushing back 2.8
05100:0010:0020:000:01–2:09 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion and episode preview summary.2:10–4:24 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Podcast Intro: The Top Entrepreneurs Nathan introduces Gabriel and establishes Doodle's founding history and scale. The exchange is cordial and purely factual.4:24–7:03 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Transitioning Doodle from Ads to SaaS Subscription Model Gabriel explains the strategic imperative from parent company Tamedia to shift Doodle from an ad-driven model to SaaS productivity software. Nathan clarifies Gabriel's hiring circumstances and geographic distribution.7:03–11:16 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Evaluating Current Revenue Mix: Advertising vs. SaaS Nathan drills down into the advertising revenue percentage and annual pricing tiers. Gabriel breaks down how large enterprise accounts dilute the average annual revenue per customer down to $30 to $40.11:16–14:24 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 User Base Conversion and SaaS Growth Trajectory Nathan rapidly calculates Doodle's monthly SaaS run rate based on customer count and price point, probing their aggressive target to reach $1.5M ARR. Gabriel acknowledges the conversion rate from 200M users is low but represents major upside.14:24–18:20 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Marketing Experiments Nathan conducts live unit economics math when Gabriel shares his trial acquisition cost targets and 15-20% trial-to-paid conversion rates. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by pointing out CAC payback ratios.18:21–20:47 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Corporate Funding Dynamics and Executive Alignment with Tamedia Nathan pushes hard on corporate governance and executive compensation after learning Gabriel has no equity in the corporate subsidiary. Gabriel deflects playfully before Nathan restates the question to ask about performance incentives.20:48–23:07 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions to close out the interview on a friendly and reflective note.0:01–2:09 · Guest teaching 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion and episode preview summary.2:10–4:24 · Guest teaching 2/10 Podcast Intro: The Top Entrepreneurs Nathan introduces Gabriel and establishes Doodle's founding history and scale. The exchange is cordial and purely factual.4:24–7:03 · Guest teaching 4/10 Transitioning Doodle from Ads to SaaS Subscription Model Gabriel explains the strategic imperative from parent company Tamedia to shift Doodle from an ad-driven model to SaaS productivity software. Nathan clarifies Gabriel's hiring circumstances and geographic distribution.7:03–11:16 · Guest teaching 4/10 Evaluating Current Revenue Mix: Advertising vs. SaaS Nathan drills down into the advertising revenue percentage and annual pricing tiers. Gabriel breaks down how large enterprise accounts dilute the average annual revenue per customer down to $30 to $40.11:16–14:24 · Guest teaching 3/10 User Base Conversion and SaaS Growth Trajectory Nathan rapidly calculates Doodle's monthly SaaS run rate based on customer count and price point, probing their aggressive target to reach $1.5M ARR. Gabriel acknowledges the conversion rate from 200M users is low but represents major upside.14:24–18:20 · Guest teaching 4/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Marketing Experiments Nathan conducts live unit economics math when Gabriel shares his trial acquisition cost targets and 15-20% trial-to-paid conversion rates. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by pointing out CAC payback ratios.18:21–20:47 · Guest teaching 3/10 Corporate Funding Dynamics and Executive Alignment with Tamedia Nathan pushes hard on corporate governance and executive compensation after learning Gabriel has no equity in the corporate subsidiary. Gabriel deflects playfully before Nathan restates the question to ask about performance incentives.20:48–23:07 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions to close out the interview on a friendly and reflective note.0:01–2:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion and episode preview summary.2:10–4:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Podcast Intro: The Top Entrepreneurs Nathan introduces Gabriel and establishes Doodle's founding history and scale. The exchange is cordial and purely factual.4:24–7:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Transitioning Doodle from Ads to SaaS Subscription Model Gabriel explains the strategic imperative from parent company Tamedia to shift Doodle from an ad-driven model to SaaS productivity software. Nathan clarifies Gabriel's hiring circumstances and geographic distribution.7:03–11:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Evaluating Current Revenue Mix: Advertising vs. SaaS Nathan drills down into the advertising revenue percentage and annual pricing tiers. Gabriel breaks down how large enterprise accounts dilute the average annual revenue per customer down to $30 to $40.11:16–14:24 · Guest disagreement 2/10 User Base Conversion and SaaS Growth Trajectory Nathan rapidly calculates Doodle's monthly SaaS run rate based on customer count and price point, probing their aggressive target to reach $1.5M ARR. Gabriel acknowledges the conversion rate from 200M users is low but represents major upside.14:24–18:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Marketing Experiments Nathan conducts live unit economics math when Gabriel shares his trial acquisition cost targets and 15-20% trial-to-paid conversion rates. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by pointing out CAC payback ratios.18:21–20:47 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Corporate Funding Dynamics and Executive Alignment with Tamedia Nathan pushes hard on corporate governance and executive compensation after learning Gabriel has no equity in the corporate subsidiary. Gabriel deflects playfully before Nathan restates the question to ask about performance incentives.20:48–23:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions to close out the interview on a friendly and reflective note.0:01–2:09 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion and episode preview summary.2:10–4:24 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Podcast Intro: The Top Entrepreneurs Nathan introduces Gabriel and establishes Doodle's founding history and scale. The exchange is cordial and purely factual.4:24–7:03 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Transitioning Doodle from Ads to SaaS Subscription Model Gabriel explains the strategic imperative from parent company Tamedia to shift Doodle from an ad-driven model to SaaS productivity software. Nathan clarifies Gabriel's hiring circumstances and geographic distribution.7:03–11:16 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Evaluating Current Revenue Mix: Advertising vs. SaaS Nathan drills down into the advertising revenue percentage and annual pricing tiers. Gabriel breaks down how large enterprise accounts dilute the average annual revenue per customer down to $30 to $40.11:16–14:24 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 User Base Conversion and SaaS Growth Trajectory Nathan rapidly calculates Doodle's monthly SaaS run rate based on customer count and price point, probing their aggressive target to reach $1.5M ARR. Gabriel acknowledges the conversion rate from 200M users is low but represents major upside.14:24–18:20 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Marketing Experiments Nathan conducts live unit economics math when Gabriel shares his trial acquisition cost targets and 15-20% trial-to-paid conversion rates. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by pointing out CAC payback ratios.18:21–20:47 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Corporate Funding Dynamics and Executive Alignment with Tamedia Nathan pushes hard on corporate governance and executive compensation after learning Gabriel has no equity in the corporate subsidiary. Gabriel deflects playfully before Nathan restates the question to ask about performance incentives.20:48–23:07 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions to close out the interview on a friendly and reflective note.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 99.1% · guest 0.9%0:00 · Nathan 99.1% · guest 0.9%3:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%3:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%6:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%6:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%9:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%9:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%12:00 · Nathan 30.4% · guest 69.6%12:00 · Nathan 30.4% · guest 69.6%15:00 · Nathan 31.7% · guest 68.3%15:00 · Nathan 31.7% · guest 68.3%18:00 · Nathan 38.5% · guest 61.5%18:00 · Nathan 38.5% · guest 61.5%21:00 · Nathan 55.7% · guest 44.3%21:00 · Nathan 55.7% · guest 44.3%24:00 · Nathan 91.9% · guest 8.1%24:00 · Nathan 91.9% · guest 8.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:55 Dodging equity question

Gabriel playfully rebuffs Nathan's direct challenge regarding running a company without equity by replying 'Good question. Next question.'

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:48 Pushing on lack of equity

Nathan directly challenges Gabriel's career decision to lead Doodle without an equity stake, refusing to drop the line of questioning until upside incentives are explained.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:05 Low conversion upside

Gabriel reframes Doodle's seemingly dismal conversion rate of 25,000 paid subscribers out of 200M MAU as massive latent upside for SaaS expansion.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:16 Instant unit economics computation

Nathan instantly computes that paying $10 per trial at a 20% conversion rate creates a $50 CAC against a $30 annual customer value, showing sharp financial fluency.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital 0000 Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion and episode preview summary.
Podcast Intro: The Top Entrepreneurs 4211 Nathan introduces Gabriel and establishes Doodle's founding history and scale. The exchange is cordial and purely factual.
Transitioning Doodle from Ads to SaaS Subscription Model 5412 Gabriel explains the strategic imperative from parent company Tamedia to shift Doodle from an ad-driven model to SaaS productivity software. Nathan clarifies Gabriel's hiring circumstances and geographic distribution.
Evaluating Current Revenue Mix: Advertising vs. SaaS 6413 Nathan drills down into the advertising revenue percentage and annual pricing tiers. Gabriel breaks down how large enterprise accounts dilute the average annual revenue per customer down to $30 to $40.
User Base Conversion and SaaS Growth Trajectory 7324 Nathan rapidly calculates Doodle's monthly SaaS run rate based on customer count and price point, probing their aggressive target to reach $1.5M ARR. Gabriel acknowledges the conversion rate from 200M users is low but represents major upside.
Customer Acquisition Economics and Marketing Experiments 8424 Nathan conducts live unit economics math when Gabriel shares his trial acquisition cost targets and 15-20% trial-to-paid conversion rates. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by pointing out CAC payback ratios.
Corporate Funding Dynamics and Executive Alignment with Tamedia 6357 Nathan pushes hard on corporate governance and executive compensation after learning Gabriel has no equity in the corporate subsidiary. Gabriel deflects playfully before Nathan restates the question to ask about performance incentives.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3111 Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions to close out the interview on a friendly and reflective note.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Supported
Ottino: Doodle receives 200 million visiting users annually
“We've grown to be yeah, two hundred million users in a year that are visiting Doodle right now.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 3:51
Assertion Supported
Ottino: Doodle acquired Israeli smart scheduling bot Meekan
“So we bought two years ago, an Israeli startup that does that does a smart scheduling bot in Slack called Mekon”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 5:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ottino: Doodle's monthly revenue is roughly 85% advertising and 15% SaaS
“It's about it's about 85, 15 still.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 8:32
Disclosure
Ottino: Doodle charges $69 per year for business subscriptions
“For the business it's 69 dollars for a year.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 9:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ottino: Some companies have thousands of Doodle premium seats
“There is companies who have thousands of Doodle seats, so thousands of users can actually use the premium Doodle.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 9:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ottino: Doodle SaaS customers pay $30 to $40 per year on average
“On average, they're paying about 30 to 40 bucks because we have the big accounts are, have quite a digressive price model.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 10:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ottino: Doodle has between 25,000 and 30,000 paying SaaS customers
“We have about Between 25 and 30,000 customers.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 11:29
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Ottino: Doodle aims to flip revenue to 90% SaaS subscriptions
“We are all totally convinced that we can flip this over to a 90 to 10 business where 90% is subscription and actually keep the advertising growing.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 11:52
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Ottino: Doodle will reach $1.5M SaaS ARR by year-end
“So we're going to get to about to about 1.5 million ARR by the end of the year.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 12:49
Disclosure
Ottino: Doodle targets an $8 to $10 CAC per free trial
“I think, I mean, we need to take it, we need to take it down to about eight to 10 dollars for a free trial at the most.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 15:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ottino: Doodle converts 15% to 20% of free trials to paid
“It's about at the moment we are at about 15 to 20% converted to paid.”
Gabriel Ottino Apr 15, 2019 ▶ 16:04
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