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Jun 25, 2019 · 18m · top-founders

1431 CRM for Speakers Passes $30k in MRR

JP Narowski · 7m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews JP Narowski, founder of Karma CRM, exploring how he bootstrapped a specialized CRM for professional speakers to $30,000 in monthly recurring revenue with an autonomous four-person remote team.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 48.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 1.3 Guest disagreement 0.5 Nathan pushing back 1.7
05100:0010:000:01–2:30 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion, show intro clips, and background narration.2:31–4:34 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing JP Narowski and Karma CRM's Core Metrics Nathan inquires about Karma CRM's core SaaS metrics, quickly multiplying the 600 customer count by the $50 average price to deduce $30k MRR. JP cooperatively confirms figures and explains their niche focus.4:34–8:34 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Origin Story and Internal Use Case of Karma CRM Nathan probes how JP differentiates in a commoditized CRM market and calculates unit payback periods from stated CAC. JP explains the internal origin story and speaker-specific domain terminology.8:37–12:00 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sponsor Segment: Investing in Startups via StartEngine Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan presses on customer churn and critiques JP's plan to offer low-margin consulting services to reduce churn. JP clarifies that services would be automated or outsourced rather than personal time.12:01–15:33 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Speaker Sales Cycles, eSpeakers Integration, and Data Insights Nathan questions why JP has kept Karma running for 7-8 years at only $30k MRR instead of selling it, and presents a hypothetical $500k acquisition. JP explains his passive board role and declines the low buyout number.15:33–17:17 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Famous Five Fast Five Q&A with JP Narowski Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with JP reflecting on his regret of not taking venture funding early on.0:01–2:30 · Guest teaching 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion, show intro clips, and background narration.2:31–4:34 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing JP Narowski and Karma CRM's Core Metrics Nathan inquires about Karma CRM's core SaaS metrics, quickly multiplying the 600 customer count by the $50 average price to deduce $30k MRR. JP cooperatively confirms figures and explains their niche focus.4:34–8:34 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Origin Story and Internal Use Case of Karma CRM Nathan probes how JP differentiates in a commoditized CRM market and calculates unit payback periods from stated CAC. JP explains the internal origin story and speaker-specific domain terminology.8:37–12:00 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Segment: Investing in Startups via StartEngine Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan presses on customer churn and critiques JP's plan to offer low-margin consulting services to reduce churn. JP clarifies that services would be automated or outsourced rather than personal time.12:01–15:33 · Guest teaching 2/10 Speaker Sales Cycles, eSpeakers Integration, and Data Insights Nathan questions why JP has kept Karma running for 7-8 years at only $30k MRR instead of selling it, and presents a hypothetical $500k acquisition. JP explains his passive board role and declines the low buyout number.15:33–17:17 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Fast Five Q&A with JP Narowski Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with JP reflecting on his regret of not taking venture funding early on.0:01–2:30 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion, show intro clips, and background narration.2:31–4:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Introducing JP Narowski and Karma CRM's Core Metrics Nathan inquires about Karma CRM's core SaaS metrics, quickly multiplying the 600 customer count by the $50 average price to deduce $30k MRR. JP cooperatively confirms figures and explains their niche focus.4:34–8:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Origin Story and Internal Use Case of Karma CRM Nathan probes how JP differentiates in a commoditized CRM market and calculates unit payback periods from stated CAC. JP explains the internal origin story and speaker-specific domain terminology.8:37–12:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Segment: Investing in Startups via StartEngine Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan presses on customer churn and critiques JP's plan to offer low-margin consulting services to reduce churn. JP clarifies that services would be automated or outsourced rather than personal time.12:01–15:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Speaker Sales Cycles, eSpeakers Integration, and Data Insights Nathan questions why JP has kept Karma running for 7-8 years at only $30k MRR instead of selling it, and presents a hypothetical $500k acquisition. JP explains his passive board role and declines the low buyout number.15:33–17:17 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Famous Five Fast Five Q&A with JP Narowski Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with JP reflecting on his regret of not taking venture funding early on.0:01–2:30 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion, show intro clips, and background narration.2:31–4:34 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Introducing JP Narowski and Karma CRM's Core Metrics Nathan inquires about Karma CRM's core SaaS metrics, quickly multiplying the 600 customer count by the $50 average price to deduce $30k MRR. JP cooperatively confirms figures and explains their niche focus.4:34–8:34 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Origin Story and Internal Use Case of Karma CRM Nathan probes how JP differentiates in a commoditized CRM market and calculates unit payback periods from stated CAC. JP explains the internal origin story and speaker-specific domain terminology.8:37–12:00 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Sponsor Segment: Investing in Startups via StartEngine Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan presses on customer churn and critiques JP's plan to offer low-margin consulting services to reduce churn. JP clarifies that services would be automated or outsourced rather than personal time.12:01–15:33 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Speaker Sales Cycles, eSpeakers Integration, and Data Insights Nathan questions why JP has kept Karma running for 7-8 years at only $30k MRR instead of selling it, and presents a hypothetical $500k acquisition. JP explains his passive board role and declines the low buyout number.15:33–17:17 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Famous Five Fast Five Q&A with JP Narowski Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with JP reflecting on his regret of not taking venture funding early on.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 92.2% · guest 7.8%0:00 · Nathan 92.2% · guest 7.8%3:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%3:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%6:00 · Nathan 37.9% · guest 62.1%6:00 · Nathan 37.9% · guest 62.1%9:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%9:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%12:00 · Nathan 28.5% · guest 71.5%12:00 · Nathan 28.5% · guest 71.5%15:00 · Nathan 39.8% · guest 60.2%15:00 · Nathan 39.8% · guest 60.2%18:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 0%18:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:05 Rejecting a $500k cash buyout proposal

JP politely rejects Nathan's hypothetical $500k cash offer, asserting that building systematized assets is worth more than a quick discounted exit.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:21 Nathan pressing JP to sell an 8-year-old business

Nathan challenges the premise of holding onto a business for nearly eight years when revenue is only $30k MRR, arguing JP should exit to pursue bigger opportunities.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:05 Educating on CRM specialization for speakers

JP details how generic CRMs fail for speakers and explains how renaming deals to gigs and tailored association email templates win the niche.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:44 Nathan calculating LTV and challenging consulting margins

Nathan immediately calculates a 20-month lifespan and $1,000 LTV from the 5% monthly churn figure, immediately drilling into the margin downsides of proposed consulting add-ons.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital 0000 Monologue segment consisting of host book promotion, show intro clips, and background narration.
Introducing JP Narowski and Karma CRM's Core Metrics 5101 Nathan inquires about Karma CRM's core SaaS metrics, quickly multiplying the 600 customer count by the $50 average price to deduce $30k MRR. JP cooperatively confirms figures and explains their niche focus.
The Origin Story and Internal Use Case of Karma CRM 5201 Nathan probes how JP differentiates in a commoditized CRM market and calculates unit payback periods from stated CAC. JP explains the internal origin story and speaker-specific domain terminology.
Sponsor Segment: Investing in Startups via StartEngine 6214 Following the mid-roll ad read, Nathan presses on customer churn and critiques JP's plan to offer low-margin consulting services to reduce churn. JP clarifies that services would be automated or outsourced rather than personal time.
Speaker Sales Cycles, eSpeakers Integration, and Data Insights 6224 Nathan questions why JP has kept Karma running for 7-8 years at only $30k MRR instead of selling it, and presents a hypothetical $500k acquisition. JP explains his passive board role and declines the low buyout number.
Famous Five Fast Five Q&A with JP Narowski 3100 Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with JP reflecting on his regret of not taking venture funding early on.

Statements from this episode (12)

Disclosure
Narowski: Karma CRM focuses specifically on professional speakers
“We're currently focusing on professional speakers. So more of a niche CRM.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 3:02
Insight
Narowski: General CRM market is too saturated; niche targeting is easier
“We kind of realized that the general CRM market is so saturated that it's hard to kind of compete in that space. So it was a lot easier for us to pick a niche, serve them really well. You know, it's puts a face to a customer much more than quote unquote, small…”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 3:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Narowski: Karma CRM has scaled past 600 customers
“So we are over 600 customers.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 3:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Narowski: Karma CRM grew about 50% YoY over the past couple years
“So we've grown about, I guess, 50% year over year over the past couple of years.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 4:14
Disclosure
Narowski: Karma CRM took only a small friends and family round
“We took a small friends and family round of funding, but generally strapped.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 4:26
Disclosure
Narowski: Karma CRM Targets $300 to $400 CAC
“So it varies, very varies a lot based on if it's organic or if it's not, but our target is about three, 400.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 7:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Narowski: Karma CRM maintains 5% monthly customer churn
“Five percent.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 10:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Narowski: Karma CRM customer LTV ranges from $1,000 to $1,500
“Yeah, yeah, that's right. It varies between, you know, a 1015 hundred.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 10:56
Disclosure
Narowski: Karma CRM customer base remains roughly half small businesses
“We haven't done that yet, but that's definitely, I think the more we drill into the speaker space, we're still kind of half and half. We still serve as small business customers and we will continue to”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 13:01
Disclosure
Narowski: Would likely reject $500k cash offer for Karma CRM
“Probably not half a million, but I definitely, you know, be willing to chat with people about it. You know, it's something that we've always kept on the table.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 15:05
Insight
Narowski: Building systems to make a company sellable improves core infrastructure
“Whether or not you sell the company, I think creating the systems and the processes to make it sellable is just good for the infrastructure of the company as is.”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 15:12
What-if
Narowski says early VC funding could have made Karma CRM mainstream
“Had I done that early on, like, you know, kind of the typical rounds, not necessarily a small angel round we took and was able to really add gas to the fire five years ago, I think we could easily be one of the, you know, the common household names and people …”
JP Narowski Jun 25, 2019 ▶ 16:46
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