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Jul 6, 2019 · 23m · top-founders

1442 Webinar Platform Breaks $2.5m in ARR, But Churn Too High

Casey Zeman · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Host Nathan Latka interviews EasyWebinar founder Casey Zeman to analyze how the bootstrapped SaaS platform scaled to over $200,000 in monthly recurring revenue while tackling high monthly subscriber churn.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 33.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.4 Guest teaching 1.4 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 4.1
05100:0010:0020:000:00–2:08 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Nathan delivers a solo book promotion and introductory preview for the episode. Because this is a monologue and intro roll, all host and guest dynamic scores are zero.2:08–4:12 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Casey Zeman Introduces EasyWebinar Platform Casey introduces EasyWebinar and outlines its evolution from an automated tool to a live streaming SaaS platform. The tone is collaborative with Nathan asking introductory framing questions.4:12–6:56 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Evolution from WordPress Plugin to SaaS Casey shares the history of transitioning from a WordPress plugin with lifetime access to a pure SaaS model. Nathan immediately intervenes to clarify that lifetime deals cannot be counted toward recurring SaaS metrics.6:57–10:37 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Deconstructing SaaS Revenue and Subscriptions Nathan rigorously calculates the blended revenue across annual and monthly cohorts, correcting Casey's $300k MRR estimate down to a fully diluted $225k MRR. Casey concedes to Nathan's mathematical deconstruction.10:38–14:07 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Team Composition, Churn, and Retention Tactics Nathan inquires about team size and churn, citing benchmark SaaS logo churn figures while Casey searches his Google Drive spreadsheets to retrieve their 30% annual revenue churn metric.14:07–18:36 · Nathan as informed peer 9/10 Unit Economics, CAC, and Churn Friction Nathan uncovers a major inconsistency between Casey's reported 30% annual churn (36-month lifetime) and a 3.5-month monthly cohort retention. Nathan directly challenges Casey's command of his core business metrics.18:36–21:14 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fundraising Outlook and 2019 Growth Roadmap When Casey discusses hitting $4M in 2018 via an upcoming launch, Nathan immediately points out contradictions with Casey's earlier statements about moving away from launch and affiliate marketing models.21:14–22:57 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, and Casey provides concise, friendly personal and professional answers before Nathan wraps up the episode recap.0:00–2:08 · Guest teaching 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Nathan delivers a solo book promotion and introductory preview for the episode. Because this is a monologue and intro roll, all host and guest dynamic scores are zero.2:08–4:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Casey Zeman Introduces EasyWebinar Platform Casey introduces EasyWebinar and outlines its evolution from an automated tool to a live streaming SaaS platform. The tone is collaborative with Nathan asking introductory framing questions.4:12–6:56 · Guest teaching 2/10 Evolution from WordPress Plugin to SaaS Casey shares the history of transitioning from a WordPress plugin with lifetime access to a pure SaaS model. Nathan immediately intervenes to clarify that lifetime deals cannot be counted toward recurring SaaS metrics.6:57–10:37 · Guest teaching 1/10 Deconstructing SaaS Revenue and Subscriptions Nathan rigorously calculates the blended revenue across annual and monthly cohorts, correcting Casey's $300k MRR estimate down to a fully diluted $225k MRR. Casey concedes to Nathan's mathematical deconstruction.10:38–14:07 · Guest teaching 1/10 Team Composition, Churn, and Retention Tactics Nathan inquires about team size and churn, citing benchmark SaaS logo churn figures while Casey searches his Google Drive spreadsheets to retrieve their 30% annual revenue churn metric.14:07–18:36 · Guest teaching 2/10 Unit Economics, CAC, and Churn Friction Nathan uncovers a major inconsistency between Casey's reported 30% annual churn (36-month lifetime) and a 3.5-month monthly cohort retention. Nathan directly challenges Casey's command of his core business metrics.18:36–21:14 · Guest teaching 2/10 Fundraising Outlook and 2019 Growth Roadmap When Casey discusses hitting $4M in 2018 via an upcoming launch, Nathan immediately points out contradictions with Casey's earlier statements about moving away from launch and affiliate marketing models.21:14–22:57 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, and Casey provides concise, friendly personal and professional answers before Nathan wraps up the episode recap.0:00–2:08 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Nathan delivers a solo book promotion and introductory preview for the episode. Because this is a monologue and intro roll, all host and guest dynamic scores are zero.2:08–4:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Casey Zeman Introduces EasyWebinar Platform Casey introduces EasyWebinar and outlines its evolution from an automated tool to a live streaming SaaS platform. The tone is collaborative with Nathan asking introductory framing questions.4:12–6:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Evolution from WordPress Plugin to SaaS Casey shares the history of transitioning from a WordPress plugin with lifetime access to a pure SaaS model. Nathan immediately intervenes to clarify that lifetime deals cannot be counted toward recurring SaaS metrics.6:57–10:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Deconstructing SaaS Revenue and Subscriptions Nathan rigorously calculates the blended revenue across annual and monthly cohorts, correcting Casey's $300k MRR estimate down to a fully diluted $225k MRR. Casey concedes to Nathan's mathematical deconstruction.10:38–14:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Team Composition, Churn, and Retention Tactics Nathan inquires about team size and churn, citing benchmark SaaS logo churn figures while Casey searches his Google Drive spreadsheets to retrieve their 30% annual revenue churn metric.14:07–18:36 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Unit Economics, CAC, and Churn Friction Nathan uncovers a major inconsistency between Casey's reported 30% annual churn (36-month lifetime) and a 3.5-month monthly cohort retention. Nathan directly challenges Casey's command of his core business metrics.18:36–21:14 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Fundraising Outlook and 2019 Growth Roadmap When Casey discusses hitting $4M in 2018 via an upcoming launch, Nathan immediately points out contradictions with Casey's earlier statements about moving away from launch and affiliate marketing models.21:14–22:57 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, and Casey provides concise, friendly personal and professional answers before Nathan wraps up the episode recap.0:00–2:08 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Nathan delivers a solo book promotion and introductory preview for the episode. Because this is a monologue and intro roll, all host and guest dynamic scores are zero.2:08–4:12 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Casey Zeman Introduces EasyWebinar Platform Casey introduces EasyWebinar and outlines its evolution from an automated tool to a live streaming SaaS platform. The tone is collaborative with Nathan asking introductory framing questions.4:12–6:56 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Evolution from WordPress Plugin to SaaS Casey shares the history of transitioning from a WordPress plugin with lifetime access to a pure SaaS model. Nathan immediately intervenes to clarify that lifetime deals cannot be counted toward recurring SaaS metrics.6:57–10:37 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Deconstructing SaaS Revenue and Subscriptions Nathan rigorously calculates the blended revenue across annual and monthly cohorts, correcting Casey's $300k MRR estimate down to a fully diluted $225k MRR. Casey concedes to Nathan's mathematical deconstruction.10:38–14:07 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Team Composition, Churn, and Retention Tactics Nathan inquires about team size and churn, citing benchmark SaaS logo churn figures while Casey searches his Google Drive spreadsheets to retrieve their 30% annual revenue churn metric.14:07–18:36 · Nathan pushing back 9/10 Unit Economics, CAC, and Churn Friction Nathan uncovers a major inconsistency between Casey's reported 30% annual churn (36-month lifetime) and a 3.5-month monthly cohort retention. Nathan directly challenges Casey's command of his core business metrics.18:36–21:14 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Fundraising Outlook and 2019 Growth Roadmap When Casey discusses hitting $4M in 2018 via an upcoming launch, Nathan immediately points out contradictions with Casey's earlier statements about moving away from launch and affiliate marketing models.21:14–22:57 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, and Casey provides concise, friendly personal and professional answers before Nathan wraps up the episode recap.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 84.2% · guest 15.8%0:00 · Nathan 84.2% · guest 15.8%3:00 · Nathan 6.8% · guest 93.2%3:00 · Nathan 6.8% · guest 93.2%6:00 · Nathan 33.2% · guest 66.8%6:00 · Nathan 33.2% · guest 66.8%9:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%9:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%12:00 · Nathan 19.9% · guest 80.1%12:00 · Nathan 19.9% · guest 80.1%15:00 · Nathan 40.4% · guest 59.6%15:00 · Nathan 40.4% · guest 59.6%18:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%18:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%21:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%21:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:31 Casey defends his metric awareness

Casey pushes back defensively when Nathan accuses him of ignoring numbers and coasting in LA, insisting he knows his numbers despite not checking them recently.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 17:19 Latka calls out evasive metrics

Nathan bluntly questions whether Casey is telling the truth or simply afraid to admit that he does not understand his own retention data.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:14 Casey separates annual vs monthly cohort retention

Casey clarifies the confusion regarding conflicting retention metrics by delineating legacy annual customer longevity (3 years) from new monthly cohort behavior (3.5 months).

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:56 Latka breaks down mathematical contradiction in LTV

Nathan demonstrates mastery of SaaS financial modeling by proving that a 30% annual churn translates mathematically to 36 months of LTV rather than Casey's stated 3.5 months.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book 0000 Nathan delivers a solo book promotion and introductory preview for the episode. Because this is a monologue and intro roll, all host and guest dynamic scores are zero.
Casey Zeman Introduces EasyWebinar Platform 4211 Casey introduces EasyWebinar and outlines its evolution from an automated tool to a live streaming SaaS platform. The tone is collaborative with Nathan asking introductory framing questions.
Evolution from WordPress Plugin to SaaS 6225 Casey shares the history of transitioning from a WordPress plugin with lifetime access to a pure SaaS model. Nathan immediately intervenes to clarify that lifetime deals cannot be counted toward recurring SaaS metrics.
Deconstructing SaaS Revenue and Subscriptions 8127 Nathan rigorously calculates the blended revenue across annual and monthly cohorts, correcting Casey's $300k MRR estimate down to a fully diluted $225k MRR. Casey concedes to Nathan's mathematical deconstruction.
Team Composition, Churn, and Retention Tactics 7114 Nathan inquires about team size and churn, citing benchmark SaaS logo churn figures while Casey searches his Google Drive spreadsheets to retrieve their 30% annual revenue churn metric.
Unit Economics, CAC, and Churn Friction 9239 Nathan uncovers a major inconsistency between Casey's reported 30% annual churn (36-month lifetime) and a 3.5-month monthly cohort retention. Nathan directly challenges Casey's command of his core business metrics.
Fundraising Outlook and 2019 Growth Roadmap 6236 When Casey discusses hitting $4M in 2018 via an upcoming launch, Nathan immediately points out contradictions with Casey's earlier statements about moving away from launch and affiliate marketing models.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3101 Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, and Casey provides concise, friendly personal and professional answers before Nathan wraps up the episode recap.

Statements from this episode (8)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
EasyWebinar customers pay an average of $100 per month
“Average customer per month is we get the middle package. We're at about a hundred bucks a month.”
Casey Zeman Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 4:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EasyWebinar generated seven-figure revenue as a WordPress plugin before pivoting
“After two years and, you know, having seven figure years, we pulled it down, turned it SAS to be able to reshift.”
Casey Zeman Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 5:49
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EasyWebinar reached 3,000 customers split between monthly and legacy annual plans
“We're at 3000 customers. Some of those people pay the 500 dollar so, I mean, we're at about 1500 customers this year at the new monthly price point, and then... And then the previous is still at about 500 to five 77.”
Casey Zeman Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 9:21
Disclosure
EasyWebinar remains entirely bootstrapped without institutional funding
“Still bootstrapped.”
Casey Zeman Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 10:37
Disclosure
EasyWebinar operates with just nine full-time employees and three freelancers
“We have about nine full-time, and then probably, you know, like three that are, you know, more of like freelancers who are doing some marketing stuff or content marketing and things like that for us.”
Casey Zeman Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 10:55
Insight
Webinar platforms suffer 7% to 10% monthly churn, killing SaaS valuations
“I can share with you guys listening, other, other webinar platforms I interviewed, I mean, you're typically seeing monthly logo churn in the, like, seven, eight, nine, 10% range, which obviously is too high to get the valuations that most SaaS companies get. Y…”
Nathan Latka Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 12:13
Disclosure
EasyWebinar acquires new $100-per-month SaaS customers for just $50 to $75
“I'd say for acquisition of a new customer we're probably talking about like 50 to 75 dollars for a new customer acquisition.”
Casey Zeman Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 14:14
Disclosure
EasyWebinar's monthly subscribers churn after an average of just 3.5 months
“Right now, we've been looking at the monthly churn is about three and a half months.”
Casey Zeman Jul 6, 2019 ▶ 16:30
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