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Aug 1, 2019 · 28m · top-founders

1468 How Moat Picked $100k ACV, Grew to $50M+ ARR, Exited to Oracle for "$850M"

Jonah Goodhart · 19m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Moat co-founder Jonah Goodhart on scaling an ad tech verification platform to over $50 million in ARR with $100,000 ACVs. Goodhart explains Moat's pure SaaS business model, strategic fundraising, and ultimate $850 million acquisition by Oracle, alongside the personal lifestyle transformation that followed.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 23% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.9 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 1.9 Nathan pushing back 2.4
05100:0010:0020:000:00–2:25 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Promotional Announcement for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo promotional intro and book plug by Nathan with a preview recap clip. No host-guest interaction occurs in this segment.2:26–4:40 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Guest Introduction and Entrepreneurial Background Nathan introduces Jonah Goodhart with detailed biographical context and asks a straightforward framing question about Moat. Jonah gives a thorough explanation of ad measurement history.4:40–7:49 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Moat's Founding Story and Venture Funding Rounds Nathan asks precise questions drilling down on capital raised, convertible notes vs equity, and round valuations. Jonah explains why their first institutional round was labelled a Series B rather than an A.7:50–12:34 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Structuring a True SaaS Business Model in Ad Tech Nathan challenges Jonah on his rejection of net revenue retention and expansion metrics, posing a hypothetical SaaS CEO scenario. Jonah holds his ground, arguing that net churn figures obscure underlying customer loss.12:34–16:17 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Packaging Strategy and Enterprise Logo Acquisition Nathan inquires about specific pricing levers and expansion dynamics. Jonah shares his contrarian strategy of focusing strictly on logo acquisition and custom packaging rather than tiered per-seat or per-impression pricing.16:24–21:33 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Reaching $50M ARR and Capitalizing on Industry Shifts Nathan performs rapid mental math on customer count and ACV to verify their $50M ARR run rate, which Jonah confirms. Jonah then reflects on the decision to sell vs. hold based on previous market downturn experiences.21:38–25:13 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 The $850M Exit, Oracle Integration, and Personal Health Shifts Nathan presses Jonah to confirm the reported $850M acquisition price, citing Recode. Jonah politely declines to comment due to public company policies but discusses the broader cultural and personal health impacts of the sale.25:14–26:54 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jonah Goodhart Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing segment followed by Nathan's summary outro. Jonah answers cheerfully with minimal friction.0:00–2:25 · Guest teaching 0/10 Promotional Announcement for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo promotional intro and book plug by Nathan with a preview recap clip. No host-guest interaction occurs in this segment.2:26–4:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Guest Introduction and Entrepreneurial Background Nathan introduces Jonah Goodhart with detailed biographical context and asks a straightforward framing question about Moat. Jonah gives a thorough explanation of ad measurement history.4:40–7:49 · Guest teaching 4/10 Moat's Founding Story and Venture Funding Rounds Nathan asks precise questions drilling down on capital raised, convertible notes vs equity, and round valuations. Jonah explains why their first institutional round was labelled a Series B rather than an A.7:50–12:34 · Guest teaching 6/10 Structuring a True SaaS Business Model in Ad Tech Nathan challenges Jonah on his rejection of net revenue retention and expansion metrics, posing a hypothetical SaaS CEO scenario. Jonah holds his ground, arguing that net churn figures obscure underlying customer loss.12:34–16:17 · Guest teaching 5/10 Packaging Strategy and Enterprise Logo Acquisition Nathan inquires about specific pricing levers and expansion dynamics. Jonah shares his contrarian strategy of focusing strictly on logo acquisition and custom packaging rather than tiered per-seat or per-impression pricing.16:24–21:33 · Guest teaching 4/10 Reaching $50M ARR and Capitalizing on Industry Shifts Nathan performs rapid mental math on customer count and ACV to verify their $50M ARR run rate, which Jonah confirms. Jonah then reflects on the decision to sell vs. hold based on previous market downturn experiences.21:38–25:13 · Guest teaching 4/10 The $850M Exit, Oracle Integration, and Personal Health Shifts Nathan presses Jonah to confirm the reported $850M acquisition price, citing Recode. Jonah politely declines to comment due to public company policies but discusses the broader cultural and personal health impacts of the sale.25:14–26:54 · Guest teaching 2/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jonah Goodhart Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing segment followed by Nathan's summary outro. Jonah answers cheerfully with minimal friction.0:00–2:25 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promotional Announcement for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo promotional intro and book plug by Nathan with a preview recap clip. No host-guest interaction occurs in this segment.2:26–4:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Guest Introduction and Entrepreneurial Background Nathan introduces Jonah Goodhart with detailed biographical context and asks a straightforward framing question about Moat. Jonah gives a thorough explanation of ad measurement history.4:40–7:49 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Moat's Founding Story and Venture Funding Rounds Nathan asks precise questions drilling down on capital raised, convertible notes vs equity, and round valuations. Jonah explains why their first institutional round was labelled a Series B rather than an A.7:50–12:34 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Structuring a True SaaS Business Model in Ad Tech Nathan challenges Jonah on his rejection of net revenue retention and expansion metrics, posing a hypothetical SaaS CEO scenario. Jonah holds his ground, arguing that net churn figures obscure underlying customer loss.12:34–16:17 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Packaging Strategy and Enterprise Logo Acquisition Nathan inquires about specific pricing levers and expansion dynamics. Jonah shares his contrarian strategy of focusing strictly on logo acquisition and custom packaging rather than tiered per-seat or per-impression pricing.16:24–21:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Reaching $50M ARR and Capitalizing on Industry Shifts Nathan performs rapid mental math on customer count and ACV to verify their $50M ARR run rate, which Jonah confirms. Jonah then reflects on the decision to sell vs. hold based on previous market downturn experiences.21:38–25:13 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The $850M Exit, Oracle Integration, and Personal Health Shifts Nathan presses Jonah to confirm the reported $850M acquisition price, citing Recode. Jonah politely declines to comment due to public company policies but discusses the broader cultural and personal health impacts of the sale.25:14–26:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jonah Goodhart Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing segment followed by Nathan's summary outro. Jonah answers cheerfully with minimal friction.0:00–2:25 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Promotional Announcement for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo promotional intro and book plug by Nathan with a preview recap clip. No host-guest interaction occurs in this segment.2:26–4:40 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Guest Introduction and Entrepreneurial Background Nathan introduces Jonah Goodhart with detailed biographical context and asks a straightforward framing question about Moat. Jonah gives a thorough explanation of ad measurement history.4:40–7:49 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Moat's Founding Story and Venture Funding Rounds Nathan asks precise questions drilling down on capital raised, convertible notes vs equity, and round valuations. Jonah explains why their first institutional round was labelled a Series B rather than an A.7:50–12:34 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Structuring a True SaaS Business Model in Ad Tech Nathan challenges Jonah on his rejection of net revenue retention and expansion metrics, posing a hypothetical SaaS CEO scenario. Jonah holds his ground, arguing that net churn figures obscure underlying customer loss.12:34–16:17 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Packaging Strategy and Enterprise Logo Acquisition Nathan inquires about specific pricing levers and expansion dynamics. Jonah shares his contrarian strategy of focusing strictly on logo acquisition and custom packaging rather than tiered per-seat or per-impression pricing.16:24–21:33 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Reaching $50M ARR and Capitalizing on Industry Shifts Nathan performs rapid mental math on customer count and ACV to verify their $50M ARR run rate, which Jonah confirms. Jonah then reflects on the decision to sell vs. hold based on previous market downturn experiences.21:38–25:13 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 The $850M Exit, Oracle Integration, and Personal Health Shifts Nathan presses Jonah to confirm the reported $850M acquisition price, citing Recode. Jonah politely declines to comment due to public company policies but discusses the broader cultural and personal health impacts of the sale.25:14–26:54 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jonah Goodhart Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing segment followed by Nathan's summary outro. Jonah answers cheerfully with minimal friction.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 98.3% · guest 1.7%0:00 · Nathan 98.3% · guest 1.7%3:00 · Nathan 6.6% · guest 93.4%3:00 · Nathan 6.6% · guest 93.4%6:00 · Nathan 8.8% · guest 91.2%6:00 · Nathan 8.8% · guest 91.2%9:00 · Nathan 18.4% · guest 81.6%9:00 · Nathan 18.4% · guest 81.6%12:00 · Nathan 3.8% · guest 96.2%12:00 · Nathan 3.8% · guest 96.2%15:00 · Nathan 14.8% · guest 85.2%15:00 · Nathan 14.8% · guest 85.2%18:00 · Nathan 5% · guest 95%18:00 · Nathan 5% · guest 95%21:00 · Nathan 14.3% · guest 85.7%21:00 · Nathan 14.3% · guest 85.7%24:00 · Nathan 18.7% · guest 81.3%24:00 · Nathan 18.7% · guest 81.3%27:00 · Nathan 98.2% · guest 1.8%27:00 · Nathan 98.2% · guest 1.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:25 Jonah rejects conventional net revenue retention metrics

Jonah directly pushes back against standard industry SaaS expansion reporting, arguing that net retention figures mask genuine churn.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 21:52 Nathan presses Jonah to verify the $850M Recode report

Nathan refuses to let the exit price drop quietly, citing reputable media sources like Recode to get an on-the-record confirmation.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:10 Jonah educates founders on how to accurately calculate annualized contract churn

Jonah walks through a precise quarterly cohort calculation methodology to show how real contract value should be evaluated.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 17:39 Nathan verifies Moat's ARR via ACV and customer volume

Nathan synthesizes data points across multiple funding rounds to pinpoint and validate Moat's $50M+ ARR milestone.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Promotional Announcement for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital 0000 Solo promotional intro and book plug by Nathan with a preview recap clip. No host-guest interaction occurs in this segment.
Guest Introduction and Entrepreneurial Background 5311 Nathan introduces Jonah Goodhart with detailed biographical context and asks a straightforward framing question about Moat. Jonah gives a thorough explanation of ad measurement history.
Moat's Founding Story and Venture Funding Rounds 6422 Nathan asks precise questions drilling down on capital raised, convertible notes vs equity, and round valuations. Jonah explains why their first institutional round was labelled a Series B rather than an A.
Structuring a True SaaS Business Model in Ad Tech 7645 Nathan challenges Jonah on his rejection of net revenue retention and expansion metrics, posing a hypothetical SaaS CEO scenario. Jonah holds his ground, arguing that net churn figures obscure underlying customer loss.
Packaging Strategy and Enterprise Logo Acquisition 5522 Nathan inquires about specific pricing levers and expansion dynamics. Jonah shares his contrarian strategy of focusing strictly on logo acquisition and custom packaging rather than tiered per-seat or per-impression pricing.
Reaching $50M ARR and Capitalizing on Industry Shifts 6423 Nathan performs rapid mental math on customer count and ACV to verify their $50M ARR run rate, which Jonah confirms. Jonah then reflects on the decision to sell vs. hold based on previous market downturn experiences.
The $850M Exit, Oracle Integration, and Personal Health Shifts 6435 Nathan presses Jonah to confirm the reported $850M acquisition price, citing Recode. Jonah politely declines to comment due to public company policies but discusses the broader cultural and personal health impacts of the sale.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jonah Goodhart 4211 Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing segment followed by Nathan's summary outro. Jonah answers cheerfully with minimal friction.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Goodhart: Moat raised just under $70M in total venture capital
“Yeah, we raised just under seventy million.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 5:09
Disclosure
Goodhart: Mayfield led Moat's $13M Series B in 2012
“And then 20 12 was when we raised our first institutional round. And so we went out to Mayfield and Mayfield led what ended up being about a thirteen million dollar what we call the series B.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 6:11
Disclosure
Goodhart: Insight invested $50M in Moat's 2015 Series C
“The last round that we raised was Insight Venture Partners. So that was in 2015 Insight put in fifty million dollars. And that was our Series C.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 7:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Goodhart: Moat was profitable when raising its Series C
“It was an interesting spot for the company because we didn't have to raise. And so we were in, we were profitable, which very few SAS companies turned out to be profitable.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 7:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Goodhart: Moat was among the only ad tech firms with recurring annual contracts
“We were actually one of the only companies in sort of focused on the world of advertising that actually priced in that way. So we priced based on an annual contract commitment. We had recurring revenue deals.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 8:29
Insight
Goodhart: Net revenue retention masks real customer churn in SaaS businesses
“I wouldn't like that. Cause I think it makes it harder to understand what's fundamentally going on with the business. And so the, all that CEO reports in that case is we're net one 30 or we're net one 40. And what you don't understand is that a piece of the bu…”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 9:51
Disclosure
Goodhart: Moat focused solely on new logos and low churn from 2012-2014
“So basically we were really focused actually not on expansion in the beginning, but we were really just for the first, I would say almost two years from 20 12 to 20 14 of just getting new logos. Frankly, we didn't honestly focus on expansion. It was something …”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 12:42
Disclosure
Goodhart: Moat avoided transparent pricing matrices in favor of custom packages
“We didn't put a matrix on our site. We didn't do a transparent pricing. We said, look, we're going to put together each deal is different. Each client is different. Their needs are different. The support level they want is different. The number of users they'r…”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 13:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Goodhart: Moat reached 500 to 700 customers pre-acquisition
“It was in the, it was certainly in the 500 plus customer range five, six, 700, something in that sort of order of magnitude.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 16:33
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Goodhart: Moat surpassed $50M ARR before its acquisition by Oracle
“500 times a hundred grand ACV would put you north of fifty million bucks in ARR. Was that accurate? Yep.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 17:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Goodhart: Colonize generated $20M profit on $30M revenue in year two
“Our first full year of business of Colonize, totally different company, we did fifteen million in revenue and ten million in profit. Our second year of business, we did thirty million in revenue, twenty million in profit.”
Jonah Goodhart Aug 1, 2019 ▶ 20:28
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