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Sep 13, 2019 · 16m · top-founders

1511 Moscow Based Video Conference Software Hits $5m in Revenue, Bootstrapped, 170 employees

Lev Yakupov · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Host Nathan Latka interviews TrueConf leader Lev Yakupov to explore how the 170-person bootstrapped enterprise video conferencing provider scaled beyond $20 million in revenue through perpetual on-premises licensing, freemium inbound marketing, and custom government deployments.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 33.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 2.2 Nathan pushing back 4.4
05100:0010:000:37–4:13 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Lev Yakupov and TrueConf's Core Product Nathan tries to box TrueConf into a standard monthly SaaS model, but Lev explains that their core business is on-premises lifetime licenses with annual maintenance updates for emerging markets.4:13–8:08 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Customer Base, Freemium Funnel, and Target Markets Nathan performs real-time unit economics calculations and catches a major discrepancy between Lev's $20M+ annual revenue claim and his stated 5,000 deals at $5,000 over five years. Lev attempts to defend his figures using a calculator before conceding that custom deals account for the gap.8:08–11:54 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Major Government Deployments and Custom Integration Revenue Nathan pushes Lev to explain where the bulk of the revenue originates if software licenses only generate around $5M. Lev explains their massive custom enterprise deployments, such as a one-million-seat rollout for the Russian government, which Nathan identifies as agency-style professional services.11:54–14:41 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Lead Generation Funnel and Hardware Upselling Strategy Lev breaks down their hardware upselling and 2,000 monthly lead flow, while Nathan confirms company history, headcount, and bootstrapped status before wrapping up.14:41–16:38 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Lev Yakupov Standard rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's closing summary synthesizing the company's financial model and metrics.0:37–4:13 · Guest teaching 5/10 Introducing Lev Yakupov and TrueConf's Core Product Nathan tries to box TrueConf into a standard monthly SaaS model, but Lev explains that their core business is on-premises lifetime licenses with annual maintenance updates for emerging markets.4:13–8:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Base, Freemium Funnel, and Target Markets Nathan performs real-time unit economics calculations and catches a major discrepancy between Lev's $20M+ annual revenue claim and his stated 5,000 deals at $5,000 over five years. Lev attempts to defend his figures using a calculator before conceding that custom deals account for the gap.8:08–11:54 · Guest teaching 5/10 Major Government Deployments and Custom Integration Revenue Nathan pushes Lev to explain where the bulk of the revenue originates if software licenses only generate around $5M. Lev explains their massive custom enterprise deployments, such as a one-million-seat rollout for the Russian government, which Nathan identifies as agency-style professional services.11:54–14:41 · Guest teaching 3/10 Lead Generation Funnel and Hardware Upselling Strategy Lev breaks down their hardware upselling and 2,000 monthly lead flow, while Nathan confirms company history, headcount, and bootstrapped status before wrapping up.14:41–16:38 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Lev Yakupov Standard rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's closing summary synthesizing the company's financial model and metrics.0:37–4:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Introducing Lev Yakupov and TrueConf's Core Product Nathan tries to box TrueConf into a standard monthly SaaS model, but Lev explains that their core business is on-premises lifetime licenses with annual maintenance updates for emerging markets.4:13–8:08 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Customer Base, Freemium Funnel, and Target Markets Nathan performs real-time unit economics calculations and catches a major discrepancy between Lev's $20M+ annual revenue claim and his stated 5,000 deals at $5,000 over five years. Lev attempts to defend his figures using a calculator before conceding that custom deals account for the gap.8:08–11:54 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Major Government Deployments and Custom Integration Revenue Nathan pushes Lev to explain where the bulk of the revenue originates if software licenses only generate around $5M. Lev explains their massive custom enterprise deployments, such as a one-million-seat rollout for the Russian government, which Nathan identifies as agency-style professional services.11:54–14:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Lead Generation Funnel and Hardware Upselling Strategy Lev breaks down their hardware upselling and 2,000 monthly lead flow, while Nathan confirms company history, headcount, and bootstrapped status before wrapping up.14:41–16:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Lev Yakupov Standard rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's closing summary synthesizing the company's financial model and metrics.0:37–4:13 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Introducing Lev Yakupov and TrueConf's Core Product Nathan tries to box TrueConf into a standard monthly SaaS model, but Lev explains that their core business is on-premises lifetime licenses with annual maintenance updates for emerging markets.4:13–8:08 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Customer Base, Freemium Funnel, and Target Markets Nathan performs real-time unit economics calculations and catches a major discrepancy between Lev's $20M+ annual revenue claim and his stated 5,000 deals at $5,000 over five years. Lev attempts to defend his figures using a calculator before conceding that custom deals account for the gap.8:08–11:54 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Major Government Deployments and Custom Integration Revenue Nathan pushes Lev to explain where the bulk of the revenue originates if software licenses only generate around $5M. Lev explains their massive custom enterprise deployments, such as a one-million-seat rollout for the Russian government, which Nathan identifies as agency-style professional services.11:54–14:41 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Lead Generation Funnel and Hardware Upselling Strategy Lev breaks down their hardware upselling and 2,000 monthly lead flow, while Nathan confirms company history, headcount, and bootstrapped status before wrapping up.14:41–16:38 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Lev Yakupov Standard rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's closing summary synthesizing the company's financial model and metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 37.1% · guest 62.9%0:00 · Nathan 37.1% · guest 62.9%3:00 · Nathan 9.3% · guest 90.7%3:00 · Nathan 9.3% · guest 90.7%6:00 · Nathan 52.3% · guest 47.7%6:00 · Nathan 52.3% · guest 47.7%9:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%9:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%12:00 · Nathan 26.6% · guest 73.4%12:00 · Nathan 26.6% · guest 73.4%15:00 · Nathan 63.1% · guest 36.9%15:00 · Nathan 63.1% · guest 36.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 6:35 Lev pulls out a calculator to challenge Nathan

When Nathan asserts Lev's numbers are off by 60x, Lev pushes back directly, opening his calculator on call to dispute the math.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:50 Nathan challenges Lev's $20M+ revenue claim

Nathan refuses to accept the vague revenue claims, breaking down the 5,000 lifetime sales to expose a mathematical contradiction.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:27 Lev details Russian Ministry custom deployment

Lev explains how their custom development model functions by sharing the scope of their 1-million-seat government implementation.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:41 Nathan proves license revenue is only $5.2M

Nathan calculates the exact maximum ceiling of software and maintenance fees, forcing Lev to admit that most revenue is non-SaaS custom development.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Lev Yakupov and TrueConf's Core Product 4524 Nathan tries to box TrueConf into a standard monthly SaaS model, but Lev explains that their core business is on-premises lifetime licenses with annual maintenance updates for emerging markets.
Customer Base, Freemium Funnel, and Target Markets 8248 Nathan performs real-time unit economics calculations and catches a major discrepancy between Lev's $20M+ annual revenue claim and his stated 5,000 deals at $5,000 over five years. Lev attempts to defend his figures using a calculator before conceding that custom deals account for the gap.
Major Government Deployments and Custom Integration Revenue 7536 Nathan pushes Lev to explain where the bulk of the revenue originates if software licenses only generate around $5M. Lev explains their massive custom enterprise deployments, such as a one-million-seat rollout for the Russian government, which Nathan identifies as agency-style professional services.
Lead Generation Funnel and Hardware Upselling Strategy 5313 Lev breaks down their hardware upselling and 2,000 monthly lead flow, while Nathan confirms company history, headcount, and bootstrapped status before wrapping up.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Lev Yakupov 5111 Standard rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's closing summary synthesizing the company's financial model and metrics.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueConf generates between $20 million and $100 million in annual revenue
“Yeah, it's somewhere between from 20 to one, A hundred millions of dollars per year.”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 2:10
Assertion Contradicted
TrueConf charges roughly 5% annually for software updates
“So let's think about five percent Of the price of the initial license, we're required to pay to get the updates for the new version. So annually, it's probably around five percent”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 3:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueConf lifetime software licenses cost an average of $5,000
“So the average price for our product, average, is approximately 5000 5000 USD. So . For life.”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 3:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueConf sold its product more than 5,000 times in five years
“We sold our product more than 5000 times during the last five years.”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 5:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueConf converts approximately 8% of free users to paid licenses
“So we usually have the conversion rate from the free version to the paid version approximately eight percent.”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 5:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueConf adds 1,500 to 2,000 corporate freemium users monthly
“So the idea is that because we have a free product, which is very popular we usually have approximately one and a half thousand to 2000 new companies who begin to use the free version of our conferencing server.”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 11:55
Disclosure
TrueConf monetizes freemium software leads by upselling third-party hardware
“And we upsell to that constant lead flow, not just our full version license. We upsell different PTZ cameras, speaker phones, microphone arrays, AV services to set up conferencing rooms, to provide some audio video peripherals. So we upsell hardware. We also d…”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 12:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueConf scaled to 170 employees across two main offices
“So we started with 15 people when we decided to do the product and now we have 170 people and two big offices.”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 13:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueConf has always been profitable and never raised outside capital
“So we were always profitable. So we never raised any capital.”
Lev Yakupov Sep 13, 2019 ▶ 14:31
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