StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Jan 15, 2020 · 18m · top-founders

1635 How He Plans to Get Churn Under 30% Annually in Event SaaS Space

Aaron Lifshin · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Aaron Lifshin, founder and CEO of Meeting Pulse, exploring how the audience engagement platform doubled ARR to $200,000 and achieved a four-to-five-month CAC payback. Lifshin explains how pivoting into enterprise corporate communications and high-touch consulting combats event-tech churn as the startup raises a $1 million seed round.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 4.0
05100:0010:000:53–4:05 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Meeting Pulse Value Proposition and Enterprise Shift Nathan drills into pricing figures after Aaron provides a vague answer, pressing for concrete annual contract values. Aaron explains how enterprise adoption spreads virally across internal departments, which Nathan reconciles with standard SaaS event metrics.4:06–7:18 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Tracking Customer Retention and Consultancy Services Nathan instructs Aaron to exclude one-off event buyers entirely from pure SaaS cohort tracking. Aaron elaborates on the emergence of an interactivity consultancy niche within event production.7:19–11:12 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Growth, Run Rate, and Burning Cash Nathan calculates Aaron's implied ARR and historical growth rate before pushing back on Aaron's claim of purely organic initial web traffic. Nathan also assesses CAC and explains channel diminishing returns.11:13–13:30 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 The SaaS Churn Dilemma in Event Technology When Aaron refuses to share churn metrics, saying only that they are not great, Nathan immediately demands meaningful context. Nathan then asserts from his industry experience that event software rarely works as a pure SaaS model.13:31–16:36 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fundraising Strategy and $7M Valuation Cap Nathan questions how Aaron can defend a SaaS valuation multiple against VCs when services represent a core revenue pillar. Aaron acknowledges his limited fundraising background when asked about venture debt alternatives.16:37–18:01 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Aaron through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in an easygoing, collaborative manner.0:53–4:05 · Guest teaching 3/10 Meeting Pulse Value Proposition and Enterprise Shift Nathan drills into pricing figures after Aaron provides a vague answer, pressing for concrete annual contract values. Aaron explains how enterprise adoption spreads virally across internal departments, which Nathan reconciles with standard SaaS event metrics.4:06–7:18 · Guest teaching 4/10 Tracking Customer Retention and Consultancy Services Nathan instructs Aaron to exclude one-off event buyers entirely from pure SaaS cohort tracking. Aaron elaborates on the emergence of an interactivity consultancy niche within event production.7:19–11:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Revenue Growth, Run Rate, and Burning Cash Nathan calculates Aaron's implied ARR and historical growth rate before pushing back on Aaron's claim of purely organic initial web traffic. Nathan also assesses CAC and explains channel diminishing returns.11:13–13:30 · Guest teaching 1/10 The SaaS Churn Dilemma in Event Technology When Aaron refuses to share churn metrics, saying only that they are not great, Nathan immediately demands meaningful context. Nathan then asserts from his industry experience that event software rarely works as a pure SaaS model.13:31–16:36 · Guest teaching 1/10 Fundraising Strategy and $7M Valuation Cap Nathan questions how Aaron can defend a SaaS valuation multiple against VCs when services represent a core revenue pillar. Aaron acknowledges his limited fundraising background when asked about venture debt alternatives.16:37–18:01 · Guest teaching 0/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Aaron through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in an easygoing, collaborative manner.0:53–4:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Meeting Pulse Value Proposition and Enterprise Shift Nathan drills into pricing figures after Aaron provides a vague answer, pressing for concrete annual contract values. Aaron explains how enterprise adoption spreads virally across internal departments, which Nathan reconciles with standard SaaS event metrics.4:06–7:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Tracking Customer Retention and Consultancy Services Nathan instructs Aaron to exclude one-off event buyers entirely from pure SaaS cohort tracking. Aaron elaborates on the emergence of an interactivity consultancy niche within event production.7:19–11:12 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Growth, Run Rate, and Burning Cash Nathan calculates Aaron's implied ARR and historical growth rate before pushing back on Aaron's claim of purely organic initial web traffic. Nathan also assesses CAC and explains channel diminishing returns.11:13–13:30 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The SaaS Churn Dilemma in Event Technology When Aaron refuses to share churn metrics, saying only that they are not great, Nathan immediately demands meaningful context. Nathan then asserts from his industry experience that event software rarely works as a pure SaaS model.13:31–16:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Fundraising Strategy and $7M Valuation Cap Nathan questions how Aaron can defend a SaaS valuation multiple against VCs when services represent a core revenue pillar. Aaron acknowledges his limited fundraising background when asked about venture debt alternatives.16:37–18:01 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Aaron through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in an easygoing, collaborative manner.0:53–4:05 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Meeting Pulse Value Proposition and Enterprise Shift Nathan drills into pricing figures after Aaron provides a vague answer, pressing for concrete annual contract values. Aaron explains how enterprise adoption spreads virally across internal departments, which Nathan reconciles with standard SaaS event metrics.4:06–7:18 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Tracking Customer Retention and Consultancy Services Nathan instructs Aaron to exclude one-off event buyers entirely from pure SaaS cohort tracking. Aaron elaborates on the emergence of an interactivity consultancy niche within event production.7:19–11:12 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Revenue Growth, Run Rate, and Burning Cash Nathan calculates Aaron's implied ARR and historical growth rate before pushing back on Aaron's claim of purely organic initial web traffic. Nathan also assesses CAC and explains channel diminishing returns.11:13–13:30 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 The SaaS Churn Dilemma in Event Technology When Aaron refuses to share churn metrics, saying only that they are not great, Nathan immediately demands meaningful context. Nathan then asserts from his industry experience that event software rarely works as a pure SaaS model.13:31–16:36 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Fundraising Strategy and $7M Valuation Cap Nathan questions how Aaron can defend a SaaS valuation multiple against VCs when services represent a core revenue pillar. Aaron acknowledges his limited fundraising background when asked about venture debt alternatives.16:37–18:01 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Aaron through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in an easygoing, collaborative manner.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%0:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%3:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%3:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%6:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%6:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%9:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%9:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%12:00 · Nathan 29.2% · guest 70.8%12:00 · Nathan 29.2% · guest 70.8%15:00 · Nathan 37.2% · guest 62.8%15:00 · Nathan 37.2% · guest 62.8%18:00 · Nathan 93.1% · guest 6.9%18:00 · Nathan 93.1% · guest 6.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:40 Aaron refuses to disclose churn metrics

Aaron pushes back on the host's data request by stating he is not prepared to disclose churn numbers.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:46 Nathan refuses vague qualitative churn descriptors

Nathan directly cuts off Aaron's vague framing to demand measurable context rather than subjective assertions.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:05 Aaron explains the emergence of event interactivity consultancy

Aaron educates Nathan on how interactivity consulting is becoming a specialized niche alongside sound and catering in modern events.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:55 Nathan leverages 30 industry interviews to critique the business model

Nathan cites his extensive interview track record in event tech to diagnose why the business model struggles under standard SaaS framing.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Meeting Pulse Value Proposition and Enterprise Shift 5314 Nathan drills into pricing figures after Aaron provides a vague answer, pressing for concrete annual contract values. Aaron explains how enterprise adoption spreads virally across internal departments, which Nathan reconciles with standard SaaS event metrics.
Tracking Customer Retention and Consultancy Services 6413 Nathan instructs Aaron to exclude one-off event buyers entirely from pure SaaS cohort tracking. Aaron elaborates on the emergence of an interactivity consultancy niche within event production.
Revenue Growth, Run Rate, and Burning Cash 6225 Nathan calculates Aaron's implied ARR and historical growth rate before pushing back on Aaron's claim of purely organic initial web traffic. Nathan also assesses CAC and explains channel diminishing returns.
The SaaS Churn Dilemma in Event Technology 7137 When Aaron refuses to share churn metrics, saying only that they are not great, Nathan immediately demands meaningful context. Nathan then asserts from his industry experience that event software rarely works as a pure SaaS model.
Fundraising Strategy and $7M Valuation Cap 6114 Nathan questions how Aaron can defend a SaaS valuation multiple against VCs when services represent a core revenue pillar. Aaron acknowledges his limited fundraising background when asked about venture debt alternatives.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2001 Nathan guides Aaron through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in an easygoing, collaborative manner.

Statements from this episode (15)

Disclosure
Lifshin: Meeting Pulse uses a hybrid SaaS and services revenue model
“Our revenue model is SaaS and services, software and services.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 1:03
Opinion
Lifshin: Audience engagement tech holds the highest business potential in enterprise meetings
“Where I really see the value of the application of the technology, as well as A good business potential as an enterprise and getting this into internal events and regular meetings.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 1:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin: Meeting Pulse's largest customer accounts reach tens of thousands
“Our largest customers, it's the tens of thousands.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 2:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin: Meeting Pulse averages $2,000 annually, with enterprises closer to $4,000
“That is about our average value, but that includes all of those one-offs. So for the larger enterprises our price point is, is closer to four K.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 3:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin: Event tech faces downward price pressure from new entrants
“And we see a lot of a lot of downward price pressure as well with a lot of entrance into the market for those for those single events.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 3:43
Insight
Lifshin: An 'interactivity consultancy' niche is emerging in event production
“Where we really Are seeing something emerge, which is interactivity consultancy around events. You have your AV guy, your sound guy, your caterer, you have your interactivity person, and we've seen more and more expectation of that and a new skillset and a new…”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 5:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin: MeetingPulse has between 100 and 200 customers
“So we are we are between a 102 hundred customers right now.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 6:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin: MeetingPulse has about a dozen team members
“Full-time, part-time, about a dozen people.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 7:17
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin confirms Meeting Pulse is at roughly $200k SaaS ARR
“It's about right. Yeah.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 8:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin: Meeting Pulse doubled SaaS revenue year-over-year
“We launched the marketing in May, but we did have customers. So we doubled year on year.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 8:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lifshin: Meeting Pulse CAC is around $400 to $500
“Right now we are looking at depending on how you count around 405 hundred.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 9:49
Opinion
Latka: Event tech does not work as a SaaS model
“I just don't think it's, I just don't think it's a SaaS model. I mean, honestly, I've interviewed probably 30 companies in this space. I just don't think it's a SaaS model. I think that's the problem. They try and fit themselves into a SaaS model, and it's jus…”
Nathan Latka Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 12:55
Insight
Lifshin: Consultative service models work better than SaaS for events
“For events, I think that's right. What I've seen to be more successful with events is something that's a lot closer to, like, a consultative service model.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 13:08
Disclosure
Lifshin: Meeting Pulse is raising a $1M seed round
“We're raising a one million seed. We're considering it a seed round.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 14:01
Disclosure
Lifshin: Meeting Pulse is raising on a $7M valuation cap
“We're going out, we're looking to raise at seven million.”
Aaron Lifshin Jan 15, 2020 ▶ 15:23
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more