Apr 1, 2020 · 20m · top-founders

1712 Investors put in $10m, He Left, Bought Back Company for Pennies on Dollar, How?

Steve Cody · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, host Nathan Latka talks with serial entrepreneur Steve Cody about creating The Better Software Company, navigating a tumultuous $9.8 million VC investment, and orchestrating a discounted buyback to scale the SaaS platform to over $400,000 in monthly recurring revenue across 4,000 franchise locations.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 1.2 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 4.0
05100:0010:0020:000:53–4:54 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Steve Cody's Early Ventures and Hertz Acquisition Nathan presses Cody on the specifics of his early business exits, drilling down into whether sale prices beat debt loads and resulted in post-tax personal wealth. Cody clarifies that his earlier exits involved heavy physical equipment rentals rather than software.4:54–8:04 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Target Markets, Pricing, and Company Scale Nathan pieces together Cody's pricing tiers and customer counts to deduce monthly revenue around $400k. Cody remains cooperative while Nathan verifies the arithmetic on average locations per account.8:04–10:11 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 VC Misalignment, Exit, and Company Buyback Cody recounts leaving his venture-backed business over governance disputes and buying it back at a discount after his replacement failed. Nathan inquires into how Cody created leverage during the buyout.10:12–16:32 · Nathan as informed peer 9/10 HostGator Mid-Roll Sponsorship Announcement Following the mid-roll ad, Nathan aggressively dissects Cody's contradictory churn metrics, demonstrating that a 3.2% monthly churn outpaces 20% annual expansion. Cody admits he does not know the exact gross cohort numbers after attempting to claim negative churn.16:32–18:53 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Cap Table Strategy and Strategic Funding vs Venture Debt When Cody reflexively rejects venture debt, Nathan catches that Cody conflates venture debt with venture equity. Nathan educates Cody on how non-dilutive debt functions without board seats or cap table governance issues.18:53–20:30 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview concludes with the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and a monologue recap by Nathan summarizing company metrics.0:53–4:54 · Guest teaching 3/10 Steve Cody's Early Ventures and Hertz Acquisition Nathan presses Cody on the specifics of his early business exits, drilling down into whether sale prices beat debt loads and resulted in post-tax personal wealth. Cody clarifies that his earlier exits involved heavy physical equipment rentals rather than software.4:54–8:04 · Guest teaching 1/10 Target Markets, Pricing, and Company Scale Nathan pieces together Cody's pricing tiers and customer counts to deduce monthly revenue around $400k. Cody remains cooperative while Nathan verifies the arithmetic on average locations per account.8:04–10:11 · Guest teaching 1/10 VC Misalignment, Exit, and Company Buyback Cody recounts leaving his venture-backed business over governance disputes and buying it back at a discount after his replacement failed. Nathan inquires into how Cody created leverage during the buyout.10:12–16:32 · Guest teaching 1/10 HostGator Mid-Roll Sponsorship Announcement Following the mid-roll ad, Nathan aggressively dissects Cody's contradictory churn metrics, demonstrating that a 3.2% monthly churn outpaces 20% annual expansion. Cody admits he does not know the exact gross cohort numbers after attempting to claim negative churn.16:32–18:53 · Guest teaching 1/10 Cap Table Strategy and Strategic Funding vs Venture Debt When Cody reflexively rejects venture debt, Nathan catches that Cody conflates venture debt with venture equity. Nathan educates Cody on how non-dilutive debt functions without board seats or cap table governance issues.18:53–20:30 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview concludes with the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and a monologue recap by Nathan summarizing company metrics.0:53–4:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Steve Cody's Early Ventures and Hertz Acquisition Nathan presses Cody on the specifics of his early business exits, drilling down into whether sale prices beat debt loads and resulted in post-tax personal wealth. Cody clarifies that his earlier exits involved heavy physical equipment rentals rather than software.4:54–8:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Target Markets, Pricing, and Company Scale Nathan pieces together Cody's pricing tiers and customer counts to deduce monthly revenue around $400k. Cody remains cooperative while Nathan verifies the arithmetic on average locations per account.8:04–10:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 VC Misalignment, Exit, and Company Buyback Cody recounts leaving his venture-backed business over governance disputes and buying it back at a discount after his replacement failed. Nathan inquires into how Cody created leverage during the buyout.10:12–16:32 · Guest disagreement 3/10 HostGator Mid-Roll Sponsorship Announcement Following the mid-roll ad, Nathan aggressively dissects Cody's contradictory churn metrics, demonstrating that a 3.2% monthly churn outpaces 20% annual expansion. Cody admits he does not know the exact gross cohort numbers after attempting to claim negative churn.16:32–18:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Cap Table Strategy and Strategic Funding vs Venture Debt When Cody reflexively rejects venture debt, Nathan catches that Cody conflates venture debt with venture equity. Nathan educates Cody on how non-dilutive debt functions without board seats or cap table governance issues.18:53–20:30 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview concludes with the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and a monologue recap by Nathan summarizing company metrics.0:53–4:54 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Steve Cody's Early Ventures and Hertz Acquisition Nathan presses Cody on the specifics of his early business exits, drilling down into whether sale prices beat debt loads and resulted in post-tax personal wealth. Cody clarifies that his earlier exits involved heavy physical equipment rentals rather than software.4:54–8:04 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Target Markets, Pricing, and Company Scale Nathan pieces together Cody's pricing tiers and customer counts to deduce monthly revenue around $400k. Cody remains cooperative while Nathan verifies the arithmetic on average locations per account.8:04–10:11 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 VC Misalignment, Exit, and Company Buyback Cody recounts leaving his venture-backed business over governance disputes and buying it back at a discount after his replacement failed. Nathan inquires into how Cody created leverage during the buyout.10:12–16:32 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 HostGator Mid-Roll Sponsorship Announcement Following the mid-roll ad, Nathan aggressively dissects Cody's contradictory churn metrics, demonstrating that a 3.2% monthly churn outpaces 20% annual expansion. Cody admits he does not know the exact gross cohort numbers after attempting to claim negative churn.16:32–18:53 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Cap Table Strategy and Strategic Funding vs Venture Debt When Cody reflexively rejects venture debt, Nathan catches that Cody conflates venture debt with venture equity. Nathan educates Cody on how non-dilutive debt functions without board seats or cap table governance issues.18:53–20:30 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview concludes with the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and a monologue recap by Nathan summarizing company metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 48.1% · guest 51.9%0:00 · Nathan 48.1% · guest 51.9%3:00 · Nathan 22.6% · guest 77.4%3:00 · Nathan 22.6% · guest 77.4%6:00 · Nathan 30.7% · guest 69.3%6:00 · Nathan 30.7% · guest 69.3%9:00 · Nathan 54.6% · guest 45.4%9:00 · Nathan 54.6% · guest 45.4%12:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%12:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%15:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%15:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%18:00 · Nathan 78.7% · guest 21.3%18:00 · Nathan 78.7% · guest 21.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:24 Guest insists there is zero churn

Cody flatly asserts that there is no churn at all when Nathan asks for gross churn before expansion, creating a brief head-to-head impasse.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:24 Host refuses conflicting cohort churn claims

Nathan refuses to let Cody conflate customer expansion with cohort retention, walking through the math to show that 3.2% monthly churn yields 38% annual churn.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:03 Guest corrects assumption about software vs equipment

Cody corrects Nathan's assumption that his early businesses were software-based by explaining he ran capital-heavy equipment rental yards with millions in asset debt.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 17:54 Host explains venture debt after guest confusion

Nathan recognizes that Cody rejected venture debt due to misunderstanding the term, stepping in to explain why venture debt is non-dilutive and avoids VC cap table governance problems.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Steve Cody's Early Ventures and Hertz Acquisition 3314 Nathan presses Cody on the specifics of his early business exits, drilling down into whether sale prices beat debt loads and resulted in post-tax personal wealth. Cody clarifies that his earlier exits involved heavy physical equipment rentals rather than software.
Target Markets, Pricing, and Company Scale 5113 Nathan pieces together Cody's pricing tiers and customer counts to deduce monthly revenue around $400k. Cody remains cooperative while Nathan verifies the arithmetic on average locations per account.
VC Misalignment, Exit, and Company Buyback 3112 Cody recounts leaving his venture-backed business over governance disputes and buying it back at a discount after his replacement failed. Nathan inquires into how Cody created leverage during the buyout.
HostGator Mid-Roll Sponsorship Announcement 9138 Following the mid-roll ad, Nathan aggressively dissects Cody's contradictory churn metrics, demonstrating that a 3.2% monthly churn outpaces 20% annual expansion. Cody admits he does not know the exact gross cohort numbers after attempting to claim negative churn.
Cap Table Strategy and Strategic Funding vs Venture Debt 8127 When Cody reflexively rejects venture debt, Nathan catches that Cody conflates venture debt with venture equity. Nathan educates Cody on how non-dilutive debt functions without board seats or cap table governance issues.
The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion 2000 The interview concludes with the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and a monologue recap by Nathan summarizing company metrics.

Statements from this episode (9)

Disclosure
The Better Software Company began as an internal operating tool
“And the software we had created was always our competitive advantage, and when we started looking for something in franchising, we couldn't find anything, so we said, well, let's just modify ours so that we can start franchising with it”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 3:42
Disclosure
The Better Software Company charges $100 to $250 per location
“The price will range between a hundred per location to 250 per location, and what we've done is we allow a person to have unlimited users”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 5:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
The Better Software Company has scaled to 4,000 franchise locations
“We've got about 4000 on there right now.”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 7:09
Assertion Contradicted
The Better Software Company initially raised $9.8M in venture capital
“We raised about 9.8 million through VCs.”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 8:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
VC investors took a loss when Steve Cody repurchased his company
“Yeah, they, yeah, they took a loss.”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 8:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
VCs blocked Steve Cody from firing a leadership team executive
“There was one person on our team that I thought should leave the team that was in a leadership position. The VCs wouldn't let me get rid of them.”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 9:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
The Better Software Company grew sales 55% after founder's buyback
“We've grown sales 55% since we took it back.”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 11:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Monthly churn dropped from 7% to 3.2% after the company buyback
“When we took the company back, churn was at about seven percent, and I think now we're sitting at about 3.2%.”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 13:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Targeting multi-location franchises reduced customer acquisition costs to $300
“When we kind of dug into it, what we found is any customer that had more than three employees did more than 350,000 dollars a year, had more than one location or had to manage inventory. They didn't turn as much. So we were able to take that and drive the CAC.…”
Steve Cody Apr 1, 2020 ▶ 15:48
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