May 1, 2020 · 22m · top-founders

1742 How Elastic.io Sold, Got Earnout and Hit $6m ARR in PaaS Space

Renat Zubairov · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, Elastic.io co-founder and CEO Renat Zubarov speaks with Nathan Latka about scaling the iPaaS provider to multi-million-dollar revenues and strong profitability following its acquisition by m-wise AG. Zubarov explains their mid-market OEM positioning, churn reduction strategy, and the operational advantages of operating within a publicly traded parent company.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 34.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 2.1 Nathan pushing back 4.3
05100:0010:0020:000:53–4:00 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Positioning Elastic.io in the iPaaS Market Nathan frames Elastic.io on the spectrum between Zapier and MuleSoft and asks about post-acquisition economics. Renat answers cooperatively, clarifying revenue and profit milestones under parent company m-wise AG.4:00–6:16 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 iPaaS Market Fragmentation and Customer Metrics When Renat dodges disclosing current customer numbers by claiming not to remember public disclosures, Nathan pushes back by pulling historical data from their prior 2018 interview to establish a baseline.6:19–9:17 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 OEM Strategy, Use Cases, and Pricing Renat breaks down their OEM and white-label distribution model, explaining how end customers differ from partner accounts. Nathan probes for customer integration use cases and partner scale.9:17–13:02 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Scaling the Team and Customer Success Expansion Strategy Nathan asks about engineering versus sales headcount distribution and whether customer success managers carry expansion quotas. Renat gives a thoughtful breakdown on how OEM software delivers expansion value.13:03–15:48 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sales Organization Dynamics and Low Mid-Market Churn Nathan confronts Renat for refusing to disclose quota sales rep numbers and presses hard when Renat avoids giving churn and expansion figures, asking if churn is something he tracks daily.15:48–19:16 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Synergy with Parent Company m-wise AG and Spin-Out Assessment Nathan asks if Renat would consider spinning the company back out if offered a higher valuation multiple. Renat explains why the structural integration with m-wise makes a separation impractical.19:16–22:15 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five wrap-up, Renat interrupts Nathan's outro summary to correct the claim that Elastic.io was entirely bootstrapped, clarifying they had an institutional investor prior to the acquisition.0:53–4:00 · Guest teaching 2/10 Positioning Elastic.io in the iPaaS Market Nathan frames Elastic.io on the spectrum between Zapier and MuleSoft and asks about post-acquisition economics. Renat answers cooperatively, clarifying revenue and profit milestones under parent company m-wise AG.4:00–6:16 · Guest teaching 3/10 iPaaS Market Fragmentation and Customer Metrics When Renat dodges disclosing current customer numbers by claiming not to remember public disclosures, Nathan pushes back by pulling historical data from their prior 2018 interview to establish a baseline.6:19–9:17 · Guest teaching 4/10 OEM Strategy, Use Cases, and Pricing Renat breaks down their OEM and white-label distribution model, explaining how end customers differ from partner accounts. Nathan probes for customer integration use cases and partner scale.9:17–13:02 · Guest teaching 3/10 Scaling the Team and Customer Success Expansion Strategy Nathan asks about engineering versus sales headcount distribution and whether customer success managers carry expansion quotas. Renat gives a thoughtful breakdown on how OEM software delivers expansion value.13:03–15:48 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sales Organization Dynamics and Low Mid-Market Churn Nathan confronts Renat for refusing to disclose quota sales rep numbers and presses hard when Renat avoids giving churn and expansion figures, asking if churn is something he tracks daily.15:48–19:16 · Guest teaching 3/10 Synergy with Parent Company m-wise AG and Spin-Out Assessment Nathan asks if Renat would consider spinning the company back out if offered a higher valuation multiple. Renat explains why the structural integration with m-wise makes a separation impractical.19:16–22:15 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five wrap-up, Renat interrupts Nathan's outro summary to correct the claim that Elastic.io was entirely bootstrapped, clarifying they had an institutional investor prior to the acquisition.0:53–4:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Positioning Elastic.io in the iPaaS Market Nathan frames Elastic.io on the spectrum between Zapier and MuleSoft and asks about post-acquisition economics. Renat answers cooperatively, clarifying revenue and profit milestones under parent company m-wise AG.4:00–6:16 · Guest disagreement 3/10 iPaaS Market Fragmentation and Customer Metrics When Renat dodges disclosing current customer numbers by claiming not to remember public disclosures, Nathan pushes back by pulling historical data from their prior 2018 interview to establish a baseline.6:19–9:17 · Guest disagreement 2/10 OEM Strategy, Use Cases, and Pricing Renat breaks down their OEM and white-label distribution model, explaining how end customers differ from partner accounts. Nathan probes for customer integration use cases and partner scale.9:17–13:02 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Scaling the Team and Customer Success Expansion Strategy Nathan asks about engineering versus sales headcount distribution and whether customer success managers carry expansion quotas. Renat gives a thoughtful breakdown on how OEM software delivers expansion value.13:03–15:48 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Sales Organization Dynamics and Low Mid-Market Churn Nathan confronts Renat for refusing to disclose quota sales rep numbers and presses hard when Renat avoids giving churn and expansion figures, asking if churn is something he tracks daily.15:48–19:16 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Synergy with Parent Company m-wise AG and Spin-Out Assessment Nathan asks if Renat would consider spinning the company back out if offered a higher valuation multiple. Renat explains why the structural integration with m-wise makes a separation impractical.19:16–22:15 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five wrap-up, Renat interrupts Nathan's outro summary to correct the claim that Elastic.io was entirely bootstrapped, clarifying they had an institutional investor prior to the acquisition.0:53–4:00 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Positioning Elastic.io in the iPaaS Market Nathan frames Elastic.io on the spectrum between Zapier and MuleSoft and asks about post-acquisition economics. Renat answers cooperatively, clarifying revenue and profit milestones under parent company m-wise AG.4:00–6:16 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 iPaaS Market Fragmentation and Customer Metrics When Renat dodges disclosing current customer numbers by claiming not to remember public disclosures, Nathan pushes back by pulling historical data from their prior 2018 interview to establish a baseline.6:19–9:17 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 OEM Strategy, Use Cases, and Pricing Renat breaks down their OEM and white-label distribution model, explaining how end customers differ from partner accounts. Nathan probes for customer integration use cases and partner scale.9:17–13:02 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Scaling the Team and Customer Success Expansion Strategy Nathan asks about engineering versus sales headcount distribution and whether customer success managers carry expansion quotas. Renat gives a thoughtful breakdown on how OEM software delivers expansion value.13:03–15:48 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Sales Organization Dynamics and Low Mid-Market Churn Nathan confronts Renat for refusing to disclose quota sales rep numbers and presses hard when Renat avoids giving churn and expansion figures, asking if churn is something he tracks daily.15:48–19:16 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Synergy with Parent Company m-wise AG and Spin-Out Assessment Nathan asks if Renat would consider spinning the company back out if offered a higher valuation multiple. Renat explains why the structural integration with m-wise makes a separation impractical.19:16–22:15 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five wrap-up, Renat interrupts Nathan's outro summary to correct the claim that Elastic.io was entirely bootstrapped, clarifying they had an institutional investor prior to the acquisition.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 61.8% · guest 38.2%0:00 · Nathan 61.8% · guest 38.2%3:00 · Nathan 20% · guest 80%3:00 · Nathan 20% · guest 80%6:00 · Nathan 35.5% · guest 64.5%6:00 · Nathan 35.5% · guest 64.5%9:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%9:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%12:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%12:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%15:00 · Nathan 42.7% · guest 57.3%15:00 · Nathan 42.7% · guest 57.3%18:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%18:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%21:00 · Nathan 67.3% · guest 32.7%21:00 · Nathan 67.3% · guest 32.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:10 Refusing to disclose sales headcount

Renat flatly refuses to disclose quota-carrying sales reps, prompting Nathan to complain that he could simply look it up on LinkedIn.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:24 Challenging guest on SaaS churn tracking

Nathan refuses to accept Renat's avoidance of churn metrics, directly challenging whether as a SaaS CEO he tracks churn on a daily basis.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 21:43 Correcting bootstrapped assumption in outro

Renat interrupts Nathan's summary recap to explicitly correct the assertion that the company was bootstrapped, revealing a 7-digit investor buyout.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 6:01 Citing historical metrics from prior interview

When Renat feigns not remembering historical customer figures, Nathan instantly cites exact date and customer count data from their previous interview.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Positioning Elastic.io in the iPaaS Market 5213 Nathan frames Elastic.io on the spectrum between Zapier and MuleSoft and asks about post-acquisition economics. Renat answers cooperatively, clarifying revenue and profit milestones under parent company m-wise AG.
iPaaS Market Fragmentation and Customer Metrics 5336 When Renat dodges disclosing current customer numbers by claiming not to remember public disclosures, Nathan pushes back by pulling historical data from their prior 2018 interview to establish a baseline.
OEM Strategy, Use Cases, and Pricing 5424 Renat breaks down their OEM and white-label distribution model, explaining how end customers differ from partner accounts. Nathan probes for customer integration use cases and partner scale.
Scaling the Team and Customer Success Expansion Strategy 5313 Nathan asks about engineering versus sales headcount distribution and whether customer success managers carry expansion quotas. Renat gives a thoughtful breakdown on how OEM software delivers expansion value.
Sales Organization Dynamics and Low Mid-Market Churn 6347 Nathan confronts Renat for refusing to disclose quota sales rep numbers and presses hard when Renat avoids giving churn and expansion figures, asking if churn is something he tracks daily.
Synergy with Parent Company m-wise AG and Spin-Out Assessment 6324 Nathan asks if Renat would consider spinning the company back out if offered a higher valuation multiple. Renat explains why the structural integration with m-wise makes a separation impractical.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4523 During the Famous Five wrap-up, Renat interrupts Nathan's outro summary to correct the claim that Elastic.io was entirely bootstrapped, clarifying they had an institutional investor prior to the acquisition.

Statements from this episode (6)

Opinion
Elastic.io positions itself between Zapier and MuleSoft on enterprise complexity
“It's somewhere between Zapier and MuleSoft, I would say. So we are more complicated, more flexible than Zapier but let's say less comprehensive or let's say less broadly spread across the different industries than MuleSoft and less enterprises than MuleSoft.”
Renat Zubairov May 1, 2020 ▶ 1:06
Assertion Supported
Elastic.io was operating at a $1M run rate when acquired
“So we were running on roundabout one million run rate at the time.”
Renat Zubairov May 1, 2020 ▶ 3:02
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Elastic.io generated €2.3M in revenue and €900K EBT in 2018
“We actually, so the last year numbers are not published yet, they are kind of going out rather soon, but the 2018 numbers, we did almost I think we did around about 2.3 million euro revenue and almost 900,000 EBT.”
Renat Zubairov May 1, 2020 ▶ 3:33
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Elastic.io sees higher churn on direct accounts compared to OEM partners
“What we definitely see is that churn on direct accounts is higher than churn of OEMs.”
Renat Zubairov May 1, 2020 ▶ 14:58
Assertion Contradicted
Renat Zubarov estimates parent company m-wise AG's valuation at €15M to €16M
“I think the valuation of M-Vice right now, including Elastic.io, is around about, if I could guess, like, okay, it's not, second of April today, maybe like, I don't know, 15, sixteen million euro?”
Renat Zubairov May 1, 2020 ▶ 18:52
Disclosure
Elastic.io raised less than €2M in venture funding before its acquisition
“It's less than two million in the euro.”
Renat Zubairov May 1, 2020 ▶ 22:08
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