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Jun 21, 2020 · 17m · top-founders

TrueFace Won't Sell Mass Surveillance System to China, Breaks $1m in Revenue

Sean Moore · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this podcast interview, TrueFace founder Sean Moore explains how his computer vision company scaled past a $1 million annual run rate across enterprise and defense clients while enforcing strict ethical bans against mass surveillance in foreign authoritarian regimes.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:000:19–3:52 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Subscription Announcement and Ad-Free Feed Promotion After an initial subscription promo, Latka questions Moore on TrueFace's business model transition away from pure-play SaaS toward professional services and on-premise licensing. Latka pushes back on Moore's definitions, arguing annual licensing remains recurring SaaS.3:52–6:04 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Model Evolution and Reaching Seven-Figure Run Rate Latka challenges the apparent contradiction in Moore's narrative regarding moving away from SaaS while increasing recurring revenue to 70%. Latka points out that an enterprise product with a $60k ACV naturally cannot rely on self-serve credit card checkout.6:05–9:14 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Seed Financing Structure, Valuation Multiples, and Team Expansion Latka investigates the mechanics of TrueFace's $3.7M seed financing round, probing why convertible notes were paired with equity pricing, and presses Moore on why a senior sales rep was let go.9:16–12:00 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Cash Burn, Geotargeted Ad Strategy, and Mass Surveillance Ethics Latka inquires about TrueFace's monthly burn rate, DoD contracts, and ethical boundaries regarding selling surveillance systems to authoritarian regimes like China or Russia.12:00–15:49 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Unit Economics, and Global Regulations Latka walks through customer acquisition channels and models out TrueFace's fully weighted CAC on the fly based on sales commission percentages and ACV. Moore details overseas thought leadership and regulatory dynamics.15:50–16:47 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation concludes with Latka running through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, sleep habits, and advice to younger founders.0:19–3:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 Subscription Announcement and Ad-Free Feed Promotion After an initial subscription promo, Latka questions Moore on TrueFace's business model transition away from pure-play SaaS toward professional services and on-premise licensing. Latka pushes back on Moore's definitions, arguing annual licensing remains recurring SaaS.3:52–6:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 Revenue Model Evolution and Reaching Seven-Figure Run Rate Latka challenges the apparent contradiction in Moore's narrative regarding moving away from SaaS while increasing recurring revenue to 70%. Latka points out that an enterprise product with a $60k ACV naturally cannot rely on self-serve credit card checkout.6:05–9:14 · Guest teaching 2/10 Seed Financing Structure, Valuation Multiples, and Team Expansion Latka investigates the mechanics of TrueFace's $3.7M seed financing round, probing why convertible notes were paired with equity pricing, and presses Moore on why a senior sales rep was let go.9:16–12:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Cash Burn, Geotargeted Ad Strategy, and Mass Surveillance Ethics Latka inquires about TrueFace's monthly burn rate, DoD contracts, and ethical boundaries regarding selling surveillance systems to authoritarian regimes like China or Russia.12:00–15:49 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Unit Economics, and Global Regulations Latka walks through customer acquisition channels and models out TrueFace's fully weighted CAC on the fly based on sales commission percentages and ACV. Moore details overseas thought leadership and regulatory dynamics.15:50–16:47 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation concludes with Latka running through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, sleep habits, and advice to younger founders.0:19–3:52 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Subscription Announcement and Ad-Free Feed Promotion After an initial subscription promo, Latka questions Moore on TrueFace's business model transition away from pure-play SaaS toward professional services and on-premise licensing. Latka pushes back on Moore's definitions, arguing annual licensing remains recurring SaaS.3:52–6:04 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Model Evolution and Reaching Seven-Figure Run Rate Latka challenges the apparent contradiction in Moore's narrative regarding moving away from SaaS while increasing recurring revenue to 70%. Latka points out that an enterprise product with a $60k ACV naturally cannot rely on self-serve credit card checkout.6:05–9:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Seed Financing Structure, Valuation Multiples, and Team Expansion Latka investigates the mechanics of TrueFace's $3.7M seed financing round, probing why convertible notes were paired with equity pricing, and presses Moore on why a senior sales rep was let go.9:16–12:00 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Cash Burn, Geotargeted Ad Strategy, and Mass Surveillance Ethics Latka inquires about TrueFace's monthly burn rate, DoD contracts, and ethical boundaries regarding selling surveillance systems to authoritarian regimes like China or Russia.12:00–15:49 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Unit Economics, and Global Regulations Latka walks through customer acquisition channels and models out TrueFace's fully weighted CAC on the fly based on sales commission percentages and ACV. Moore details overseas thought leadership and regulatory dynamics.15:50–16:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation concludes with Latka running through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, sleep habits, and advice to younger founders.0:19–3:52 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Subscription Announcement and Ad-Free Feed Promotion After an initial subscription promo, Latka questions Moore on TrueFace's business model transition away from pure-play SaaS toward professional services and on-premise licensing. Latka pushes back on Moore's definitions, arguing annual licensing remains recurring SaaS.3:52–6:04 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Revenue Model Evolution and Reaching Seven-Figure Run Rate Latka challenges the apparent contradiction in Moore's narrative regarding moving away from SaaS while increasing recurring revenue to 70%. Latka points out that an enterprise product with a $60k ACV naturally cannot rely on self-serve credit card checkout.6:05–9:14 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Seed Financing Structure, Valuation Multiples, and Team Expansion Latka investigates the mechanics of TrueFace's $3.7M seed financing round, probing why convertible notes were paired with equity pricing, and presses Moore on why a senior sales rep was let go.9:16–12:00 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Cash Burn, Geotargeted Ad Strategy, and Mass Surveillance Ethics Latka inquires about TrueFace's monthly burn rate, DoD contracts, and ethical boundaries regarding selling surveillance systems to authoritarian regimes like China or Russia.12:00–15:49 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Unit Economics, and Global Regulations Latka walks through customer acquisition channels and models out TrueFace's fully weighted CAC on the fly based on sales commission percentages and ACV. Moore details overseas thought leadership and regulatory dynamics.15:50–16:47 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation concludes with Latka running through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, sleep habits, and advice to younger founders.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 66.1% · guest 33.9%0:00 · Nathan 66.1% · guest 33.9%3:00 · Nathan 28.3% · guest 71.7%3:00 · Nathan 28.3% · guest 71.7%6:00 · Nathan 35% · guest 65%6:00 · Nathan 35% · guest 65%9:00 · Nathan 25.4% · guest 74.6%9:00 · Nathan 25.4% · guest 74.6%12:00 · Nathan 24.8% · guest 75.2%12:00 · Nathan 24.8% · guest 75.2%15:00 · Nathan 45.4% · guest 54.6%15:00 · Nathan 45.4% · guest 54.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:45 Firm rejection of foreign mass surveillance contracts

Moore takes a definitive stance against compromising company ethics, unequivocally stating TrueFace will not deploy facial recognition for mass surveillance in China or Russia.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 4:20 Host dissects contradictory SaaS and checkout claims

Latka directly confronts Moore on his claim of moving away from SaaS while reporting 70% recurring revenue, reminding him that buyers do not purchase $60,000 enterprise solutions via self-serve credit card forms.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:03 Explaining on-premise computer vision constraints

Moore educates Latka on the enterprise computer vision market, explaining why local infrastructure deployments and heavy professional services are necessary due to privacy constraints and enterprise engineering talent gaps.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:41 Host calculates unit economics on the fly

When Moore cannot state TrueFace's CAC, Latka leverages sales commission data and annual contract value to reverse-engineer an estimated $6k-$10k CAC on a $60k contract.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Subscription Announcement and Ad-Free Feed Promotion 4324 After an initial subscription promo, Latka questions Moore on TrueFace's business model transition away from pure-play SaaS toward professional services and on-premise licensing. Latka pushes back on Moore's definitions, arguing annual licensing remains recurring SaaS.
Revenue Model Evolution and Reaching Seven-Figure Run Rate 6226 Latka challenges the apparent contradiction in Moore's narrative regarding moving away from SaaS while increasing recurring revenue to 70%. Latka points out that an enterprise product with a $60k ACV naturally cannot rely on self-serve credit card checkout.
Seed Financing Structure, Valuation Multiples, and Team Expansion 6215 Latka investigates the mechanics of TrueFace's $3.7M seed financing round, probing why convertible notes were paired with equity pricing, and presses Moore on why a senior sales rep was let go.
Cash Burn, Geotargeted Ad Strategy, and Mass Surveillance Ethics 5323 Latka inquires about TrueFace's monthly burn rate, DoD contracts, and ethical boundaries regarding selling surveillance systems to authoritarian regimes like China or Russia.
Customer Acquisition Channels, Unit Economics, and Global Regulations 6314 Latka walks through customer acquisition channels and models out TrueFace's fully weighted CAC on the fly based on sales commission percentages and ACV. Moore details overseas thought leadership and regulatory dynamics.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2101 The conversation concludes with Latka running through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, sleep habits, and advice to younger founders.

Statements from this episode (12)

Insight
Fortune 500s lack engineering talent to deploy computer vision
“One of the interesting things to note about computer vision right now is it's still very early on in the industry's adoption, and so a lot of these Fortune 500 companies or governments that we work with don't have the capacity or engineering talent To take thi…”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 2:20
Disclosure
Moore: Pure SaaS fails for computer vision due to on-premise privacy requirements
“A lot of the times we're deploying this technology on local infrastructure to our clients to ensure data and privacy, you know, that is upheld by our clients. And so the SAS model just doesn't always work for them. They would prefer to buy an annual license or…”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 3:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueFace reached a 70% recurring revenue split in 2019
“When you had asked me this six months ago, it was probably 80% one time. That's now flipped. It's probably about 70% recurring now.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 4:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueFace scaled revenue from $200k to over $1M in 2019
“This year we've booked just over seven figures, and so going from about 200,000 dollars in revenue last year to over seven figures this year, you know, we're starting to understand that, that cycle a bit better.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 5:05
Insight
Selling enterprise computer vision is hard without established budgets
“I think that the hardest part about the enterprise sales cycle, especially with computer vision is it's a new purchase. It's a new line item and it's either going to marketing, it's going to security.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 5:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueFace has 17 to 20 annual contract customers
“About 17 to 20 right now.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 5:56
Assertion Supported
Moore: TrueFace has raised just over $5 million since inception
“The total amount raised to date from inception is just over five million. But the seed round is 3.7.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 6:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TrueFace burns slightly over $150,000 per month
“Yeah, it's about that though. On average, just a little bit higher than that.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 9:28
Assertion Supported
TrueFace won a second contract with the US Air Force
“They are. Yes. So gotten our second contract with them. Everything's, is going well. So we're very excited about working with the DoD.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 10:38
Disclosure
TrueFace refuses to sell its technology in China or Russia
“You know, we have our internal protocols there, and everyone knows that we don't do work in China internally, so we just blanket say no to it. Russia's the same way. We won't do work in Russia. And so, you know, we've got our policy about using this, using com…”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 10:54
Disclosure
Moore: TrueFace cut outbound emails from 10k monthly to a targeted fraction
“We went from sending, I think it was about 10,000 plus emails a month you know, directed targeted emails a month to a fraction of that that are way more focused on, on people that we know need the technology.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 12:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Moore: TrueFace had zero gross revenue churn over the past year
“None.”
Sean Moore Jun 21, 2020 ▶ 15:42
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