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Jun 29, 2020 · 23m · top-founders

Reveleer Hits $8m ARR, New CEO Gets 10% to Reboot Company, $18m Raised, Raising New $10m Now

Jay Ackerman · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken Eric Yuan · 4s spoken Vivek Bhaskaran · 2s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this interview, Nathan Latka speaks with Reveleer CEO Jay Ackerman about scaling the value-based healthcare data platform to $8 million in SaaS ARR, achieving 240% net revenue retention, and preparing for strategic M&A through a $10 million equity round and senior debt refinancing.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 43.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.1 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:0020:000:17–3:22 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Latka Subscription Feed and Exclusive Interview Promotion Following the podcast intro and sponsor promo, Nathan drills into the fundamentals of value-based care. Jay educates him on how government-sponsored health plans interact with providers and use Reveleer's cloud application.3:22–6:29 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Reveleer's Pricing Mechanism and Data Interoperability Nathan seeks clarification on healthcare terminology like 'members' versus 'patients' and why health plans lack records. Once explained, Nathan rapidly computes Reveleer's SaaS run rate at approximately 8 million dollars ARR across 30 customers.6:29–10:16 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Company Background, History, and Capital Burn Nathan questions why the company needed to raise additional capital after Jay joined and drills down into the company's headcount breakdown, specifically demanding what 50 operations employees do. Jay explains their tech-enabled record retrieval and data extraction workflow.10:16–12:22 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Retention Metrics, Net Expansion, and Scalability Nathan breaks down the cohort math from Jay's 90% gross retention and 150% expansion figures, validating an impressive 240% net retention rate while questioning whether it is repeatable at scale.12:24–14:43 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Go-to-Market Strategy and Low Customer Acquisition Cost Nathan analyzes customer acquisition dynamics, calculating that Jay spends roughly 75,000 dollars to acquire a 300,000 dollar contract with a three-month payback period across a target universe of 2,000 health plans.14:43–18:20 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Strategic $10M Capital Raise and Valuation Dynamics Nathan aggressively challenges the decision to raise 10 million dollars of dilutive equity given the strong cash efficiency and expansion metrics, pressing Jay on taking a personal equity hit instead of using debt.18:20–20:45 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Venture Debt Refinancing and M&A Financing Strategy Nathan challenges Jay's claim of finding debt capital cheaper than SVB's 3-6% rate. Nathan demonstrates deep credit knowledge, clarifying that Jay is not stacking debt but executing a complete refinancing to secure a larger senior line for M&A.20:45–22:16 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, software tools, sleep habits, and advice to younger entrepreneurs.0:17–3:22 · Guest teaching 3/10 Latka Subscription Feed and Exclusive Interview Promotion Following the podcast intro and sponsor promo, Nathan drills into the fundamentals of value-based care. Jay educates him on how government-sponsored health plans interact with providers and use Reveleer's cloud application.3:22–6:29 · Guest teaching 4/10 Reveleer's Pricing Mechanism and Data Interoperability Nathan seeks clarification on healthcare terminology like 'members' versus 'patients' and why health plans lack records. Once explained, Nathan rapidly computes Reveleer's SaaS run rate at approximately 8 million dollars ARR across 30 customers.6:29–10:16 · Guest teaching 3/10 Company Background, History, and Capital Burn Nathan questions why the company needed to raise additional capital after Jay joined and drills down into the company's headcount breakdown, specifically demanding what 50 operations employees do. Jay explains their tech-enabled record retrieval and data extraction workflow.10:16–12:22 · Guest teaching 2/10 Retention Metrics, Net Expansion, and Scalability Nathan breaks down the cohort math from Jay's 90% gross retention and 150% expansion figures, validating an impressive 240% net retention rate while questioning whether it is repeatable at scale.12:24–14:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Go-to-Market Strategy and Low Customer Acquisition Cost Nathan analyzes customer acquisition dynamics, calculating that Jay spends roughly 75,000 dollars to acquire a 300,000 dollar contract with a three-month payback period across a target universe of 2,000 health plans.14:43–18:20 · Guest teaching 2/10 Strategic $10M Capital Raise and Valuation Dynamics Nathan aggressively challenges the decision to raise 10 million dollars of dilutive equity given the strong cash efficiency and expansion metrics, pressing Jay on taking a personal equity hit instead of using debt.18:20–20:45 · Guest teaching 2/10 Venture Debt Refinancing and M&A Financing Strategy Nathan challenges Jay's claim of finding debt capital cheaper than SVB's 3-6% rate. Nathan demonstrates deep credit knowledge, clarifying that Jay is not stacking debt but executing a complete refinancing to secure a larger senior line for M&A.20:45–22:16 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, software tools, sleep habits, and advice to younger entrepreneurs.0:17–3:22 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Latka Subscription Feed and Exclusive Interview Promotion Following the podcast intro and sponsor promo, Nathan drills into the fundamentals of value-based care. Jay educates him on how government-sponsored health plans interact with providers and use Reveleer's cloud application.3:22–6:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Reveleer's Pricing Mechanism and Data Interoperability Nathan seeks clarification on healthcare terminology like 'members' versus 'patients' and why health plans lack records. Once explained, Nathan rapidly computes Reveleer's SaaS run rate at approximately 8 million dollars ARR across 30 customers.6:29–10:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Company Background, History, and Capital Burn Nathan questions why the company needed to raise additional capital after Jay joined and drills down into the company's headcount breakdown, specifically demanding what 50 operations employees do. Jay explains their tech-enabled record retrieval and data extraction workflow.10:16–12:22 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Retention Metrics, Net Expansion, and Scalability Nathan breaks down the cohort math from Jay's 90% gross retention and 150% expansion figures, validating an impressive 240% net retention rate while questioning whether it is repeatable at scale.12:24–14:43 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Go-to-Market Strategy and Low Customer Acquisition Cost Nathan analyzes customer acquisition dynamics, calculating that Jay spends roughly 75,000 dollars to acquire a 300,000 dollar contract with a three-month payback period across a target universe of 2,000 health plans.14:43–18:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Strategic $10M Capital Raise and Valuation Dynamics Nathan aggressively challenges the decision to raise 10 million dollars of dilutive equity given the strong cash efficiency and expansion metrics, pressing Jay on taking a personal equity hit instead of using debt.18:20–20:45 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Venture Debt Refinancing and M&A Financing Strategy Nathan challenges Jay's claim of finding debt capital cheaper than SVB's 3-6% rate. Nathan demonstrates deep credit knowledge, clarifying that Jay is not stacking debt but executing a complete refinancing to secure a larger senior line for M&A.20:45–22:16 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, software tools, sleep habits, and advice to younger entrepreneurs.0:17–3:22 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Latka Subscription Feed and Exclusive Interview Promotion Following the podcast intro and sponsor promo, Nathan drills into the fundamentals of value-based care. Jay educates him on how government-sponsored health plans interact with providers and use Reveleer's cloud application.3:22–6:29 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Reveleer's Pricing Mechanism and Data Interoperability Nathan seeks clarification on healthcare terminology like 'members' versus 'patients' and why health plans lack records. Once explained, Nathan rapidly computes Reveleer's SaaS run rate at approximately 8 million dollars ARR across 30 customers.6:29–10:16 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Company Background, History, and Capital Burn Nathan questions why the company needed to raise additional capital after Jay joined and drills down into the company's headcount breakdown, specifically demanding what 50 operations employees do. Jay explains their tech-enabled record retrieval and data extraction workflow.10:16–12:22 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Retention Metrics, Net Expansion, and Scalability Nathan breaks down the cohort math from Jay's 90% gross retention and 150% expansion figures, validating an impressive 240% net retention rate while questioning whether it is repeatable at scale.12:24–14:43 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Go-to-Market Strategy and Low Customer Acquisition Cost Nathan analyzes customer acquisition dynamics, calculating that Jay spends roughly 75,000 dollars to acquire a 300,000 dollar contract with a three-month payback period across a target universe of 2,000 health plans.14:43–18:20 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Strategic $10M Capital Raise and Valuation Dynamics Nathan aggressively challenges the decision to raise 10 million dollars of dilutive equity given the strong cash efficiency and expansion metrics, pressing Jay on taking a personal equity hit instead of using debt.18:20–20:45 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Venture Debt Refinancing and M&A Financing Strategy Nathan challenges Jay's claim of finding debt capital cheaper than SVB's 3-6% rate. Nathan demonstrates deep credit knowledge, clarifying that Jay is not stacking debt but executing a complete refinancing to secure a larger senior line for M&A.20:45–22:16 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, software tools, sleep habits, and advice to younger entrepreneurs.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 54.3% · guest 45.7%0:00 · Nathan 54.3% · guest 45.7%3:00 · Nathan 32.6% · guest 67.4%3:00 · Nathan 32.6% · guest 67.4%6:00 · Nathan 42.8% · guest 57.2%6:00 · Nathan 42.8% · guest 57.2%9:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%9:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%12:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%12:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%15:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%15:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%18:00 · Nathan 45.2% · guest 54.8%18:00 · Nathan 45.2% · guest 54.8%21:00 · Nathan 49.8% · guest 50.2%21:00 · Nathan 49.8% · guest 50.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:41 Defending equity dilution decision

Jay defends taking equity dilution and giving up personal ownership by arguing that strategic healthcare investors bring indispensable scaling expertise that debt cannot match.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:20 Challenging claim of sub-3% capital

Nathan directly challenges Jay's statement that he found capital cheaper than standard 3 to 6 percent SVB terms, demanding specifics because such rates would be unprecedented in venture debt.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:33 Explaining member data disconnect in healthcare

Jay corrects Nathan's assumption that insurers already possess patient data, explaining the severe lack of interoperability between provider clinical systems and payer administrative records.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 20:16 Demonstrating venture debt structuring expertise

Nathan displays sharp domain expertise in venture debt mechanics, demonstrating that banks require first-lien seniority and correcting Jay's framing by identifying the transaction as a full refinancing rather than a stacked term loan.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Latka Subscription Feed and Exclusive Interview Promotion 2312 Following the podcast intro and sponsor promo, Nathan drills into the fundamentals of value-based care. Jay educates him on how government-sponsored health plans interact with providers and use Reveleer's cloud application.
Reveleer's Pricing Mechanism and Data Interoperability 6413 Nathan seeks clarification on healthcare terminology like 'members' versus 'patients' and why health plans lack records. Once explained, Nathan rapidly computes Reveleer's SaaS run rate at approximately 8 million dollars ARR across 30 customers.
Company Background, History, and Capital Burn 5314 Nathan questions why the company needed to raise additional capital after Jay joined and drills down into the company's headcount breakdown, specifically demanding what 50 operations employees do. Jay explains their tech-enabled record retrieval and data extraction workflow.
Retention Metrics, Net Expansion, and Scalability 6212 Nathan breaks down the cohort math from Jay's 90% gross retention and 150% expansion figures, validating an impressive 240% net retention rate while questioning whether it is repeatable at scale.
Go-to-Market Strategy and Low Customer Acquisition Cost 6212 Nathan analyzes customer acquisition dynamics, calculating that Jay spends roughly 75,000 dollars to acquire a 300,000 dollar contract with a three-month payback period across a target universe of 2,000 health plans.
Strategic $10M Capital Raise and Valuation Dynamics 7226 Nathan aggressively challenges the decision to raise 10 million dollars of dilutive equity given the strong cash efficiency and expansion metrics, pressing Jay on taking a personal equity hit instead of using debt.
Venture Debt Refinancing and M&A Financing Strategy 8227 Nathan challenges Jay's claim of finding debt capital cheaper than SVB's 3-6% rate. Nathan demonstrates deep credit knowledge, clarifying that Jay is not stacking debt but executing a complete refinancing to secure a larger senior line for M&A.
The Famous Five Questions 1100 Nathan runs through his standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, software tools, sleep habits, and advice to younger entrepreneurs.

Statements from this episode (14)

Disclosure
Reveleer prices by per-patient 'chase' rather than broad enterprise licenses
“We have a couple of different pricing arrangements. Some are, What I would consider kind of typical enterprise agreements where they can use it as much as they want, as broadly as they want, but our typical pricing model is based on what we call a chase, which…”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 3:31
Disclosure
Reveleer averages $275K in SaaS revenue across 30 health plan customers
“Today we have about 30 customers and on average, we earn about 375,000 dollars per plan that we cover and services revenue and about 275,000 in SAS revenue.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 5:20
Assertion Supported
Reveleer has raised just under $18M in total capital to date
“Just under 18.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 7:21
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Reveleer expects to reach positive cash flow by the end of 2020
“We will end the year cashflow positive.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 8:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer's current cash burn rate is roughly $100,000 per month
“So we're burning about a hundred grand a month.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 8:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer operates with a team of roughly 80 full-time employees
“We've got today about 80 people full time.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 8:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer has existing contracts to grow its $10M revenue by 70%
“We have business under contract, To have that number be about 70% higher next year, and so the 50 in ops are effectively supporting that new growth that's already been sold.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 9:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer maintained 90% gross revenue retention over the past 12 months
“So gross revenue churn, we were about 90% gross 90% retention on a gross basis.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 10:27
Disclosure
Reveleer's SaaS revenue has grown from roughly $2M one year ago
“So a year ago it was maybe two million.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 12:35
Disclosure
Reveleer's fully loaded CAC is 20% to 25% of first-year ACV
“I would say our fully loaded customer acquisition costs with all of sales, all of marketing commissions in there... Trade shows, about 20, 25%... Of first year ACV.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 14:14
Disclosure
Reveleer is currently raising close to $10M in fresh capital
“So it's still a little bit in flux, but we're expecting to raise close to ten million dollars.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 14:59
Disclosure
Reveleer is targeting a $50M pre-money valuation for its current round
“Yeah, I think that's you know, that's close.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 16:00
Disclosure
Reveleer uses a venture debt term loan and accounts receivable line
“We do have venture debt. We have A term loan, and we're also we will have an AR line going forward to support the cash flow needs of the business.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 18:04
Disclosure
Reveleer plans to finance upcoming acquisitions partially through new debt
“We are looking at some acquisition opportunities and would like to finance that in part with debt.”
Jay Ackerman Jun 29, 2020 ▶ 19:36
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