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Apr 9, 2021 · 19m · top-founders

The First SaaS on BitClout will Replace Substack, Patreon

Max Metcalfe · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken Eric Yuan · 4s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Nathan Latka interviews SubClout founder Max Metcalfe to examine how the first SaaS platform built on BitClout enables creators to monetize content through token-gated access and traditional fiat payments. The conversation explores hybrid business models, platform adoption challenges, and the broader regulatory hurdles facing decentralized finance.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 38.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.2 Guest teaching 4.8 Guest disagreement 3.0 Nathan pushing back 5.0
05100:0010:001:31–4:21 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Max Metcalfe and the Vision for SubClout Nathan displays concrete knowledge of SubClout's real-time token metrics and market cap. Max explains why selling creator coins to pay founder salaries depresses the coin price, motivating an outside fundraise.4:21–8:15 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Token Economics, Business Models, and Bridging Crypto with Mainstream Users Nathan pushes Max on why he doesn't embrace pure decentralization and sell tokens openly for operational hires. Max pushes back by clearly distinguishing utility tokens from legal company equity and outlining the necessity of a fiat on-ramp.8:15–10:32 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Mainstream Adoption Strategies and Potential BitClout Competition Nathan probes potential acquisition scenarios with the core BitClout platform. Max explains why BitClout's crypto purism prevents them from building fiat options, validating SubClout's distinct niche.10:33–14:21 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 The Debate Over Unregulated Private Equity and Fraud Risks A sharp philosophical disagreement occurs over tokenized private investing. Nathan dismisses regulatory protections by citing historical public fraud like Enron, while Max firmly argues that unregulated private company token trading drastically multiplies fraud risks.14:22–17:20 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 SubClout Traction, Product Rollout, and Fundraising Plans Nathan reviews SubClout's MVP launch and suggests opening the upcoming SAFE note round to existing token holders to prevent community backlash, a strategy Max agrees with.1:31–4:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Max Metcalfe and the Vision for SubClout Nathan displays concrete knowledge of SubClout's real-time token metrics and market cap. Max explains why selling creator coins to pay founder salaries depresses the coin price, motivating an outside fundraise.4:21–8:15 · Guest teaching 6/10 Token Economics, Business Models, and Bridging Crypto with Mainstream Users Nathan pushes Max on why he doesn't embrace pure decentralization and sell tokens openly for operational hires. Max pushes back by clearly distinguishing utility tokens from legal company equity and outlining the necessity of a fiat on-ramp.8:15–10:32 · Guest teaching 5/10 Mainstream Adoption Strategies and Potential BitClout Competition Nathan probes potential acquisition scenarios with the core BitClout platform. Max explains why BitClout's crypto purism prevents them from building fiat options, validating SubClout's distinct niche.10:33–14:21 · Guest teaching 7/10 The Debate Over Unregulated Private Equity and Fraud Risks A sharp philosophical disagreement occurs over tokenized private investing. Nathan dismisses regulatory protections by citing historical public fraud like Enron, while Max firmly argues that unregulated private company token trading drastically multiplies fraud risks.14:22–17:20 · Guest teaching 3/10 SubClout Traction, Product Rollout, and Fundraising Plans Nathan reviews SubClout's MVP launch and suggests opening the upcoming SAFE note round to existing token holders to prevent community backlash, a strategy Max agrees with.1:31–4:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Max Metcalfe and the Vision for SubClout Nathan displays concrete knowledge of SubClout's real-time token metrics and market cap. Max explains why selling creator coins to pay founder salaries depresses the coin price, motivating an outside fundraise.4:21–8:15 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Token Economics, Business Models, and Bridging Crypto with Mainstream Users Nathan pushes Max on why he doesn't embrace pure decentralization and sell tokens openly for operational hires. Max pushes back by clearly distinguishing utility tokens from legal company equity and outlining the necessity of a fiat on-ramp.8:15–10:32 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Mainstream Adoption Strategies and Potential BitClout Competition Nathan probes potential acquisition scenarios with the core BitClout platform. Max explains why BitClout's crypto purism prevents them from building fiat options, validating SubClout's distinct niche.10:33–14:21 · Guest disagreement 7/10 The Debate Over Unregulated Private Equity and Fraud Risks A sharp philosophical disagreement occurs over tokenized private investing. Nathan dismisses regulatory protections by citing historical public fraud like Enron, while Max firmly argues that unregulated private company token trading drastically multiplies fraud risks.14:22–17:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 SubClout Traction, Product Rollout, and Fundraising Plans Nathan reviews SubClout's MVP launch and suggests opening the upcoming SAFE note round to existing token holders to prevent community backlash, a strategy Max agrees with.1:31–4:21 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Max Metcalfe and the Vision for SubClout Nathan displays concrete knowledge of SubClout's real-time token metrics and market cap. Max explains why selling creator coins to pay founder salaries depresses the coin price, motivating an outside fundraise.4:21–8:15 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Token Economics, Business Models, and Bridging Crypto with Mainstream Users Nathan pushes Max on why he doesn't embrace pure decentralization and sell tokens openly for operational hires. Max pushes back by clearly distinguishing utility tokens from legal company equity and outlining the necessity of a fiat on-ramp.8:15–10:32 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Mainstream Adoption Strategies and Potential BitClout Competition Nathan probes potential acquisition scenarios with the core BitClout platform. Max explains why BitClout's crypto purism prevents them from building fiat options, validating SubClout's distinct niche.10:33–14:21 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 The Debate Over Unregulated Private Equity and Fraud Risks A sharp philosophical disagreement occurs over tokenized private investing. Nathan dismisses regulatory protections by citing historical public fraud like Enron, while Max firmly argues that unregulated private company token trading drastically multiplies fraud risks.14:22–17:20 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 SubClout Traction, Product Rollout, and Fundraising Plans Nathan reviews SubClout's MVP launch and suggests opening the upcoming SAFE note round to existing token holders to prevent community backlash, a strategy Max agrees with.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 62.6% · guest 37.4%0:00 · Nathan 62.6% · guest 37.4%3:00 · Nathan 22.1% · guest 77.9%3:00 · Nathan 22.1% · guest 77.9%6:00 · Nathan 34.5% · guest 65.5%6:00 · Nathan 34.5% · guest 65.5%9:00 · Nathan 33.3% · guest 66.7%9:00 · Nathan 33.3% · guest 66.7%12:00 · Nathan 20.7% · guest 79.3%12:00 · Nathan 20.7% · guest 79.3%15:00 · Nathan 64.3% · guest 35.7%15:00 · Nathan 64.3% · guest 35.7%18:00 · Nathan 30.9% · guest 69.1%18:00 · Nathan 30.9% · guest 69.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:46 Max rejects the anti-regulation premise

Max directly contradicts Nathan's preference for lawless product analysis, asserting that allowing unaudited founders to sell company tokens openly will lead to widespread fraud.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:14 Nathan refuses regulatory safety defense using Enron

Nathan explicitly rejects Max's defense of regulation by arguing audited public giants like Enron commit massive fraud anyway, defending decentralized community governance.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:55 Max separates utility tokens from equity ownership

Max clarifies the structural distinction between holding creator coins for platform access versus owning actual equity in the operating company.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:14 Nathan cites Enron to challenge regulatory efficacy

Nathan counters the guest's reliance on SEC oversight by pointing out systemic auditing failures in major public markets.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Max Metcalfe and the Vision for SubClout 6313 Nathan displays concrete knowledge of SubClout's real-time token metrics and market cap. Max explains why selling creator coins to pay founder salaries depresses the coin price, motivating an outside fundraise.
Token Economics, Business Models, and Bridging Crypto with Mainstream Users 7647 Nathan pushes Max on why he doesn't embrace pure decentralization and sell tokens openly for operational hires. Max pushes back by clearly distinguishing utility tokens from legal company equity and outlining the necessity of a fiat on-ramp.
Mainstream Adoption Strategies and Potential BitClout Competition 5523 Nathan probes potential acquisition scenarios with the core BitClout platform. Max explains why BitClout's crypto purism prevents them from building fiat options, validating SubClout's distinct niche.
The Debate Over Unregulated Private Equity and Fraud Risks 7778 A sharp philosophical disagreement occurs over tokenized private investing. Nathan dismisses regulatory protections by citing historical public fraud like Enron, while Max firmly argues that unregulated private company token trading drastically multiplies fraud risks.
SubClout Traction, Product Rollout, and Fundraising Plans 6314 Nathan reviews SubClout's MVP launch and suggests opening the upcoming SAFE note round to existing token holders to prevent community backlash, a strategy Max agrees with.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Supported
SubClout creator coin market cap sits at $157,000
“Yeah, you have seven, about 70 coins in circulation today. The market cap is about a 157,000 dollars, more than your personal market cap.”
Nathan Latka Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 3:30
Insight
Selling creator coins to fund founder salaries depresses token value
“Selling coins decreases the price and kind of hurts the value of the coin itself. So the reason to raise outside funding is to give us a path where we can build this full time without like Hurting the value of the coin in the short term so we can like build fo…”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 3:55
Assertion Supported
SubClout coin grants platform access, not equity ownership
“When you buy the coin, you're not buying stock in the company, right? Those are two separate things. It's like a way to get rewards. So the reason to buy sub cloud coin is not because you get X percent of the company. It's because you get to use the platform, …”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 5:04
Prediction Open · timeframe Apr 2024
BitClout will likely eventually offer a native gated newsletter
“So, like, the possibility that BitClout will eventually offer a premium newsletter where you can do a long form post to your top X holders of the coin, the possibility that actually is pretty high, I think. Very high.”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 9:43
Prediction Held up
BitClout will not offer fiat payment options alongside creator coins
“The possibility that they will also say you can access this if you pay 10 dollars a month or if you own the coin is very low. Because they want to bring people into the community. They don't want to give people that option of using fiat currency.”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 9:57
Opinion
Token markets for undisclosed private companies create high fraud risk
“Like all of a sudden you're a stock market for private companies who don't disclose any data. And I think like the potential for fraud and the potential for hurting investors more than helping them in the longterm is pretty high there.”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 11:27
Prediction Not checkable as stated
SEC will not allow unregulated private company token trading in US
“Like, the SEC isn't going to allow that to happen, at least in America.”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 13:16
Disclosure
SubClout charges creator coins instead of fiat currency for access
“No, we don't charge fiat for our tool. No, we charge creator coin for our tool.”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 14:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
SubClout waitlist reaches 160 creators after first native newsletter send
“We sent our first newsletter yesterday that was written and sent and packaged everything on natively on the platform. So it was really fun for us. And then we're onboarding people. We have like a 160 on our waitlist right now. Onboarding starting tomorrow.”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 14:57
Disclosure
SubClout seeks to raise up to $500K for team expansion
“Yeah, we're looking to raise, like, two 50 to 500,000. Look, to, we'd use the money to pay salary, build out a team.”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 15:53
Opinion
Consumers prefer holding equity over paying monthly SaaS subscriptions
“We want to build a platform that enables people to have the option of paying 10 dollars a month for Spotify or owning two shares of their stock. And if you could have that choice, I feel like most people would choose to own two shares of their stock, given tha…”
Max Metcalfe Apr 9, 2021 ▶ 18:11
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