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Nov 23, 2021 · 22m · top-founders

Wunderkind Raising $100m+ at $1b+ Valuation As They Eye IPO Market in 2023

Ryan Urban · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this interview with Nathan Latka, Wunderkind CEO Ryan Urban discusses scaling the company past $150 million in annual revenue across its identity SaaS and advertising platforms while preparing for a nine-figure pre-IPO funding round.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 27.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 4.3 Guest disagreement 3.5 Nathan pushing back 5.2
05100:0010:0020:001:00–3:53 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Ryan Urban and the Modern Pre-IPO Mindset Latka opens with lighthearted rapport regarding Urban's appearance before probing into pre-IPO preparations and crossover financing. Urban freely describes their strategic finance positioning and new office footprint without friction.3:53–7:13 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Revenue Acceleration, Identity Technology, and Global Expansion Latka asks for recent top-line expansion, allowing Urban to deliver an extended monologue on identity resolution technology, customer referral rates, and international office growth. Latka acts largely as a listener throughout the segment.7:13–11:33 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Debating the $150 Million ARR Milestone and Upbranding Latka aggressively calculates Urban's revenue run rate at $150M based on public filings and YoY rates, refusing to accept vague evasions. Urban interrupts to insist on the term 'upbranding' over 'rebranding' and tries to deflect the revenue math before acknowledging Latka is in the ballpark.11:34–14:41 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Comparing Wunderkind's SaaS Engine and Advertising Platform Latka attempts to dissect Wunderkind's dual revenue architecture between SaaS and advertising. He repeatedly redirects Urban when the guest wanders off into illustrative case studies like Target, forcing Urban to explain the mechanics of both divisions.14:42–18:07 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Ad Spend Economics, CPMs, and Revenue Diversification Latka aggressively probes gross ad volume, CPM arbitrage spreads, and the exact SaaS-to-ads revenue percentage split. Urban evades specific gross dollar figures and percentage breakdowns, leading Latka to press multiple times with restated questions.18:07–21:29 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Capital Efficiency, M&A History, and Nine-Figure Pre-IPO Fundraising Latka directly confronts Urban with the venture capital perspective that failing to raise since 2018 signals negative market sentiment. Urban explains their use of debt for five M&A deals and confirms they are seeking a nine-figure pre-IPO strategic round at high forward revenue multiples.1:00–3:53 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Ryan Urban and the Modern Pre-IPO Mindset Latka opens with lighthearted rapport regarding Urban's appearance before probing into pre-IPO preparations and crossover financing. Urban freely describes their strategic finance positioning and new office footprint without friction.3:53–7:13 · Guest teaching 4/10 Revenue Acceleration, Identity Technology, and Global Expansion Latka asks for recent top-line expansion, allowing Urban to deliver an extended monologue on identity resolution technology, customer referral rates, and international office growth. Latka acts largely as a listener throughout the segment.7:13–11:33 · Guest teaching 4/10 Debating the $150 Million ARR Milestone and Upbranding Latka aggressively calculates Urban's revenue run rate at $150M based on public filings and YoY rates, refusing to accept vague evasions. Urban interrupts to insist on the term 'upbranding' over 'rebranding' and tries to deflect the revenue math before acknowledging Latka is in the ballpark.11:34–14:41 · Guest teaching 5/10 Comparing Wunderkind's SaaS Engine and Advertising Platform Latka attempts to dissect Wunderkind's dual revenue architecture between SaaS and advertising. He repeatedly redirects Urban when the guest wanders off into illustrative case studies like Target, forcing Urban to explain the mechanics of both divisions.14:42–18:07 · Guest teaching 5/10 Ad Spend Economics, CPMs, and Revenue Diversification Latka aggressively probes gross ad volume, CPM arbitrage spreads, and the exact SaaS-to-ads revenue percentage split. Urban evades specific gross dollar figures and percentage breakdowns, leading Latka to press multiple times with restated questions.18:07–21:29 · Guest teaching 5/10 Capital Efficiency, M&A History, and Nine-Figure Pre-IPO Fundraising Latka directly confronts Urban with the venture capital perspective that failing to raise since 2018 signals negative market sentiment. Urban explains their use of debt for five M&A deals and confirms they are seeking a nine-figure pre-IPO strategic round at high forward revenue multiples.1:00–3:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Introducing Ryan Urban and the Modern Pre-IPO Mindset Latka opens with lighthearted rapport regarding Urban's appearance before probing into pre-IPO preparations and crossover financing. Urban freely describes their strategic finance positioning and new office footprint without friction.3:53–7:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Acceleration, Identity Technology, and Global Expansion Latka asks for recent top-line expansion, allowing Urban to deliver an extended monologue on identity resolution technology, customer referral rates, and international office growth. Latka acts largely as a listener throughout the segment.7:13–11:33 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Debating the $150 Million ARR Milestone and Upbranding Latka aggressively calculates Urban's revenue run rate at $150M based on public filings and YoY rates, refusing to accept vague evasions. Urban interrupts to insist on the term 'upbranding' over 'rebranding' and tries to deflect the revenue math before acknowledging Latka is in the ballpark.11:34–14:41 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Comparing Wunderkind's SaaS Engine and Advertising Platform Latka attempts to dissect Wunderkind's dual revenue architecture between SaaS and advertising. He repeatedly redirects Urban when the guest wanders off into illustrative case studies like Target, forcing Urban to explain the mechanics of both divisions.14:42–18:07 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Ad Spend Economics, CPMs, and Revenue Diversification Latka aggressively probes gross ad volume, CPM arbitrage spreads, and the exact SaaS-to-ads revenue percentage split. Urban evades specific gross dollar figures and percentage breakdowns, leading Latka to press multiple times with restated questions.18:07–21:29 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Capital Efficiency, M&A History, and Nine-Figure Pre-IPO Fundraising Latka directly confronts Urban with the venture capital perspective that failing to raise since 2018 signals negative market sentiment. Urban explains their use of debt for five M&A deals and confirms they are seeking a nine-figure pre-IPO strategic round at high forward revenue multiples.1:00–3:53 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Ryan Urban and the Modern Pre-IPO Mindset Latka opens with lighthearted rapport regarding Urban's appearance before probing into pre-IPO preparations and crossover financing. Urban freely describes their strategic finance positioning and new office footprint without friction.3:53–7:13 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Revenue Acceleration, Identity Technology, and Global Expansion Latka asks for recent top-line expansion, allowing Urban to deliver an extended monologue on identity resolution technology, customer referral rates, and international office growth. Latka acts largely as a listener throughout the segment.7:13–11:33 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Debating the $150 Million ARR Milestone and Upbranding Latka aggressively calculates Urban's revenue run rate at $150M based on public filings and YoY rates, refusing to accept vague evasions. Urban interrupts to insist on the term 'upbranding' over 'rebranding' and tries to deflect the revenue math before acknowledging Latka is in the ballpark.11:34–14:41 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Comparing Wunderkind's SaaS Engine and Advertising Platform Latka attempts to dissect Wunderkind's dual revenue architecture between SaaS and advertising. He repeatedly redirects Urban when the guest wanders off into illustrative case studies like Target, forcing Urban to explain the mechanics of both divisions.14:42–18:07 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Ad Spend Economics, CPMs, and Revenue Diversification Latka aggressively probes gross ad volume, CPM arbitrage spreads, and the exact SaaS-to-ads revenue percentage split. Urban evades specific gross dollar figures and percentage breakdowns, leading Latka to press multiple times with restated questions.18:07–21:29 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Capital Efficiency, M&A History, and Nine-Figure Pre-IPO Fundraising Latka directly confronts Urban with the venture capital perspective that failing to raise since 2018 signals negative market sentiment. Urban explains their use of debt for five M&A deals and confirms they are seeking a nine-figure pre-IPO strategic round at high forward revenue multiples.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 56.6% · guest 43.4%0:00 · Nathan 56.6% · guest 43.4%3:00 · Nathan 4.7% · guest 95.3%3:00 · Nathan 4.7% · guest 95.3%6:00 · Nathan 50.1% · guest 49.9%6:00 · Nathan 50.1% · guest 49.9%9:00 · Nathan 17.3% · guest 82.7%9:00 · Nathan 17.3% · guest 82.7%12:00 · Nathan 13.9% · guest 86.1%12:00 · Nathan 13.9% · guest 86.1%15:00 · Nathan 21.2% · guest 78.8%15:00 · Nathan 21.2% · guest 78.8%18:00 · Nathan 25.2% · guest 74.8%18:00 · Nathan 25.2% · guest 74.8%21:00 · Nathan 38.2% · guest 61.8%21:00 · Nathan 38.2% · guest 61.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:30 Urban rejects rebrand terminology

Urban aggressively interrupts Latka to reject the term 'rebrand' in favor of 'upbrand', insisting on a semantic distinction about heritage rather than answering the underlying financial question.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:04 Latka refuses to accept evasive inference

When Urban attempts to dodge a $150M revenue milestone by telling Latka to infer it, Latka firmly pushes back that Urban already stated 50% growth on a known $100M base.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:09 Urban breaks down ad network unit economics

Urban educates Latka on why Wunderkind is not a traditional CPM broker locking up inventory for spread arbitrage, detailing how they proprietary-build ad creative and distribute private marketplace demand.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 18:07 Latka challenges venture fundraising narrative

Latka leverages his venture industry expertise to challenge Urban directly, noting that going three years without raising after a massive growth claim is traditionally viewed by investors as a negative signal.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Ryan Urban and the Modern Pre-IPO Mindset 4322 Latka opens with lighthearted rapport regarding Urban's appearance before probing into pre-IPO preparations and crossover financing. Urban freely describes their strategic finance positioning and new office footprint without friction.
Revenue Acceleration, Identity Technology, and Global Expansion 3421 Latka asks for recent top-line expansion, allowing Urban to deliver an extended monologue on identity resolution technology, customer referral rates, and international office growth. Latka acts largely as a listener throughout the segment.
Debating the $150 Million ARR Milestone and Upbranding 7457 Latka aggressively calculates Urban's revenue run rate at $150M based on public filings and YoY rates, refusing to accept vague evasions. Urban interrupts to insist on the term 'upbranding' over 'rebranding' and tries to deflect the revenue math before acknowledging Latka is in the ballpark.
Comparing Wunderkind's SaaS Engine and Advertising Platform 6536 Latka attempts to dissect Wunderkind's dual revenue architecture between SaaS and advertising. He repeatedly redirects Urban when the guest wanders off into illustrative case studies like Target, forcing Urban to explain the mechanics of both divisions.
Ad Spend Economics, CPMs, and Revenue Diversification 7558 Latka aggressively probes gross ad volume, CPM arbitrage spreads, and the exact SaaS-to-ads revenue percentage split. Urban evades specific gross dollar figures and percentage breakdowns, leading Latka to press multiple times with restated questions.
Capital Efficiency, M&A History, and Nine-Figure Pre-IPO Fundraising 8547 Latka directly confronts Urban with the venture capital perspective that failing to raise since 2018 signals negative market sentiment. Urban explains their use of debt for five M&A deals and confirms they are seeking a nine-figure pre-IPO strategic round at high forward revenue multiples.

Statements from this episode (15)

Disclosure
Urban: Wunderkind conducted a pre-IPO crossover fund process
“So I actually was on a we did do a kind of a pre IPO like a crossover fund process. And I really wanted to kind process. And I really wanted to kind of, Introduce what Wunderkin does to a lot of the public company investors.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 1:48
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Urban: Wunderkind will probably go public, potentially in 2022 or 2023
“Because at some point it could be next year, it could be early at 23, whenever, whenever, whenever we feel it's appropriate. Yeah. We're probably going to be a public company at some point and something we're looking forward to.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 2:01
Disclosure
Urban: Wunderkind will soon reach 800 to 1,000 employees
“We're probably by the time this airs, maybe even a thousand people will probably be 800 people soon.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 3:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Urban: Wunderkind can increase client business by 20% within a year
“If someone uses our full series, we can increase the business by 20%. And that's like a real number. It's like within a year, like we can increase almost any business within 20%.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 4:34
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Urban: Wunderkind will deliver about 50% revenue growth this year
“It's gonna be about a 50% revenue growth 50% growth year for us. And that's on a big base and that's without like, without deploying like a ton of strategic financing.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 5:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Urban: Half of Wunderkind's customers and staff arrive via referrals
“A half our customers come by word of mouth for bid for enterprise software company. That's very rare. It's almost half of wonder can people work here come also by referrals.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 5:23
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Urban: Wunderkind's annual revenue is in the $150M ballpark
“So it's you're in the ballpark, so.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 8:12
Opinion
Urban: Direct-to-consumer is a false category and just commerce
“There's no such thing as direct consumer. It's like, it's just commerce.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 9:31
Assertion Supported
Urban: Wunderkind works with half of the Comscore 250 digital publishers
“So we work with like half the comp score of two-fifty. You work like the biggest ones, like the CNBC, the Weathers, the CNN, those kinds of big publishers.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 13:47
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Urban: Wunderkind's advertising division will approach $100M revenue next year
“I would say next year. Oh, definitely. I'd say next year we'd be getting closer to Getting close to nine figures in revenue on that.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 15:06
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Urban: Advertising will probably make up 40% of Wunderkind's revenue
“I say the future 12 months will probably be 40% advertising, but they're both going to grow.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 17:15
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Urban: Wunderkind's SaaS and advertising divisions will each reach $1B revenue
“These are ultimately these are going to be both billion dollar revenue businesses.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 17:24
Opinion
Urban: Wunderkind advertising is even better than Facebook advertising
“And I think we have advertising that's even better than Facebook advertising.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 18:01
Disclosure
Urban: Roughly half of Wunderkind's $75M funding was venture debt
“Say it's about half and half the debt. We, we've acquired five companies.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 18:51
Insight
Urban: The primary reason to take a company public is attracting talent
“But I mean, the reason to go public is, is really just attract talent. That's the main thing.”
Ryan Urban Nov 23, 2021 ▶ 20:47
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