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Dec 4, 2021 · 19m · top-founders

$1.4m ARR Furniture Delivery Chatbot Company Growing 200% YoY, Raising $5m Now

Ziv Foss · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Ziv Foss, co-founder and CEO of Package.ai, exploring how the company scaled its conversational AI last-mile delivery software to $1.44 million ARR with 200% year-over-year growth. Foss shares insights on the company's origin story, lean distributed engineering team, zero-percent churn rate, and upcoming $5 million to $10 million Series A fundraise.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 1.5 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 1.8
05100:0010:000:51–5:35 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Package.ai and Last-Mile Delivery Automation Latka drills into the business model, unit economics, and customer profile, using Spencer's TV as a concrete example to understand pricing tiers ($60k ACV) and delivery metrics.5:37–9:11 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Team Composition and Distributed R&D Operations Latka investigates team structure, offshore R&D in Israel, equity splits between co-founders, and initial capital raised ($700k pre-seed, $3M total).9:14–11:41 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath SaaS Valuation Directory Begins with a sponsor ad read by Latka for FounderPath before returning to interview questions about initial customer acquisition through cold outbound campaigns.11:41–16:18 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Incubator Backing and Early Cap Table Construction Latka breaks down the cap table mechanics with government-backed incubator Nielsen Innovate and aggressively models Package.ai's valuation math, prompting Foss to correct his growth rate estimate to 2x YoY.16:21–19:13 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Investor Strategy, Platform Scale, and Zero Churn Performance Latka presses for specific platform scale metrics (driver count, lifetime reviews generated) before smoothly transitioning into the rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up.19:13–19:51 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Financial Takeaways Host solo outro summarizing the interview, founder background, ARR, growth rate, and fundraising outlook.0:51–5:35 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Package.ai and Last-Mile Delivery Automation Latka drills into the business model, unit economics, and customer profile, using Spencer's TV as a concrete example to understand pricing tiers ($60k ACV) and delivery metrics.5:37–9:11 · Guest teaching 1/10 Team Composition and Distributed R&D Operations Latka investigates team structure, offshore R&D in Israel, equity splits between co-founders, and initial capital raised ($700k pre-seed, $3M total).9:14–11:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath SaaS Valuation Directory Begins with a sponsor ad read by Latka for FounderPath before returning to interview questions about initial customer acquisition through cold outbound campaigns.11:41–16:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 Incubator Backing and Early Cap Table Construction Latka breaks down the cap table mechanics with government-backed incubator Nielsen Innovate and aggressively models Package.ai's valuation math, prompting Foss to correct his growth rate estimate to 2x YoY.16:21–19:13 · Guest teaching 2/10 Investor Strategy, Platform Scale, and Zero Churn Performance Latka presses for specific platform scale metrics (driver count, lifetime reviews generated) before smoothly transitioning into the rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up.19:13–19:51 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Financial Takeaways Host solo outro summarizing the interview, founder background, ARR, growth rate, and fundraising outlook.0:51–5:35 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Package.ai and Last-Mile Delivery Automation Latka drills into the business model, unit economics, and customer profile, using Spencer's TV as a concrete example to understand pricing tiers ($60k ACV) and delivery metrics.5:37–9:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Team Composition and Distributed R&D Operations Latka investigates team structure, offshore R&D in Israel, equity splits between co-founders, and initial capital raised ($700k pre-seed, $3M total).9:14–11:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath SaaS Valuation Directory Begins with a sponsor ad read by Latka for FounderPath before returning to interview questions about initial customer acquisition through cold outbound campaigns.11:41–16:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Incubator Backing and Early Cap Table Construction Latka breaks down the cap table mechanics with government-backed incubator Nielsen Innovate and aggressively models Package.ai's valuation math, prompting Foss to correct his growth rate estimate to 2x YoY.16:21–19:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Investor Strategy, Platform Scale, and Zero Churn Performance Latka presses for specific platform scale metrics (driver count, lifetime reviews generated) before smoothly transitioning into the rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up.19:13–19:51 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Financial Takeaways Host solo outro summarizing the interview, founder background, ARR, growth rate, and fundraising outlook.0:51–5:35 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Package.ai and Last-Mile Delivery Automation Latka drills into the business model, unit economics, and customer profile, using Spencer's TV as a concrete example to understand pricing tiers ($60k ACV) and delivery metrics.5:37–9:11 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Team Composition and Distributed R&D Operations Latka investigates team structure, offshore R&D in Israel, equity splits between co-founders, and initial capital raised ($700k pre-seed, $3M total).9:14–11:41 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath SaaS Valuation Directory Begins with a sponsor ad read by Latka for FounderPath before returning to interview questions about initial customer acquisition through cold outbound campaigns.11:41–16:18 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Incubator Backing and Early Cap Table Construction Latka breaks down the cap table mechanics with government-backed incubator Nielsen Innovate and aggressively models Package.ai's valuation math, prompting Foss to correct his growth rate estimate to 2x YoY.16:21–19:13 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Investor Strategy, Platform Scale, and Zero Churn Performance Latka presses for specific platform scale metrics (driver count, lifetime reviews generated) before smoothly transitioning into the rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up.19:13–19:51 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Financial Takeaways Host solo outro summarizing the interview, founder background, ARR, growth rate, and fundraising outlook.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 46.4% · guest 53.6%0:00 · Nathan 46.4% · guest 53.6%3:00 · Nathan 23.4% · guest 76.6%3:00 · Nathan 23.4% · guest 76.6%6:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%6:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%9:00 · Nathan 51.6% · guest 48.4%9:00 · Nathan 51.6% · guest 48.4%12:00 · Nathan 27.3% · guest 72.7%12:00 · Nathan 27.3% · guest 72.7%15:00 · Nathan 45.2% · guest 54.8%15:00 · Nathan 45.2% · guest 54.8%18:00 · Nathan 62% · guest 38%18:00 · Nathan 62% · guest 38%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:53 Correcting YoY growth rate

Foss corrects Latka's conservative growth estimate, firmly pointing out that the business has more than doubled MRR rather than growing at 30-50%.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:58 Pinning down early dilution

Latka pushes Foss on the pre-seed round valuation cap, explicitly calculating and challenging how much equity was given away to the incubator.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:05 Differentiating from standard last-mile delivery

Foss educates Latka on the distinction between food delivery apps and the high-touch coordination needed for bulky home furnishings and appliance installations.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:25 Real-time SaaS financial modeling

Latka rapidly calculates monthly ARPU, customer counts, and historical run rates on the fly to deduce implied valuation multiple targets.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Package.ai and Last-Mile Delivery Automation 6312 Latka drills into the business model, unit economics, and customer profile, using Spencer's TV as a concrete example to understand pricing tiers ($60k ACV) and delivery metrics.
Team Composition and Distributed R&D Operations 5112 Latka investigates team structure, offshore R&D in Israel, equity splits between co-founders, and initial capital raised ($700k pre-seed, $3M total).
Sponsor Message: FounderPath SaaS Valuation Directory 4111 Begins with a sponsor ad read by Latka for FounderPath before returning to interview questions about initial customer acquisition through cold outbound campaigns.
Incubator Backing and Early Cap Table Construction 7224 Latka breaks down the cap table mechanics with government-backed incubator Nielsen Innovate and aggressively models Package.ai's valuation math, prompting Foss to correct his growth rate estimate to 2x YoY.
Investor Strategy, Platform Scale, and Zero Churn Performance 5212 Latka presses for specific platform scale metrics (driver count, lifetime reviews generated) before smoothly transitioning into the rapid-fire Famous Five wrap-up.
Episode Summary and Key Financial Takeaways 0000 Host solo outro summarizing the interview, founder background, ARR, growth rate, and fundraising outlook.

Statements from this episode (14)

Disclosure
Package.ai combines delivery management software with conversational AI
“Package AI is basically a combination of delivery management software and a conversational AI platform that basically transforms the last mile or delivery experience into a very customer centric experience.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 1:17
Disclosure
Package.ai targets home furnishings and appliance delivery in US and Canada
“So we actually focus on a very specific vertical, which is home furnishings and appliance delivery. So we work with a bunch of you know, small, from the smaller to medium-sized and larger furniture and appliance retailers all across the U.S. And Canada.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 2:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Package.ai's average customer contract value is roughly $60,000 per year
“So the sweet spot is about 60,000 dollars a year. So that's kind of what we think of as a medium size customer. We have some smaller ones and we have a few larger ones. And generally as many other SaaS companies, we're kind of trending up in the account values…”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 3:47
Disclosure
Package.ai operates with a ten-person team across Israel and the US
“So we have seven people in Israel and three in the US today.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 6:18
Disclosure
Package.ai raised $3M from angels and insiders, avoiding traditional VCs
“We've raised about a three million dollars to date. So no VCs, you know, more kind of friends and family and industry insiders.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 8:26
Assertion Partly supported
Package.ai raised a $700,000 pre-seed round in 2017
“In 2017, we raised a pre-seed round. It was around 700,000.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 8:43
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Package.ai raised its 2017 pre-seed at a $1M to $1.5M valuation
“So in 2017, we raised at it was I don't remember like, you know, exactly, but you know, somewhere between one and 1.5 million.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 12:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nielsen Innovate is Package.ai's largest outside shareholder
“And they are the largest shareholder outside of the founders basically, and you know, small investors.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 12:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Package.ai has surpassed $1 million in annual recurring revenue
“Well, well, at this point, you know, we're you know, the business has proven we were over a million dollars in ARR.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 13:24
Disclosure
Package.ai is targeting a $5M to $10M Series A raise
“Yeah, I think somewhere between five and 10.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 14:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Package.ai is growing its revenue 2x to 3x year-over-year
“Like this growth rate that we're showing, which is, you know, between two and three times three X, like year over year.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 14:52
Disclosure
Package.ai focuses on first-party driver management rather than sourcing drivers
“We don't deal right now with sourcing drivers. This is more managing kind of, they're basically kind of, we call it first party. So basically they manage their own.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 16:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Package.ai has roughly 1,000 delivery drivers using its platform
“There are, let's say somewhere between like around a thousand.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 17:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Package.ai claims it has experienced zero customer churn to date
“We've had zero churn today. So, you know, no customers left us.”
Ziv Foss Dec 4, 2021 ▶ 18:07
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