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Dec 13, 2021 · 17m · top-founders

Can Bindle beat Clear to Handle COVID Records as NFT's?

Carlos Corton · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Bindle co-founder Carlos Corton to explore how the startup uses cryptographic tokens for COVID-19 health verification, manages high-volume venue logistics, and competes with enterprise incumbents like Clear and IBM.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 5.0
05100:0010:000:49–3:29 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Transforming Health Credentials into Digital Tokens Nathan asks for a lay explanation of NFT-based credentials and pushes on how the platform avoids fraudulent self-issued tokens. Carlos explains verified credential issuers and zero-knowledge cryptographic entry passes.3:30–7:41 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Venue Logistics and Coexisting with Paper Passes Nathan argues that showing paper cards and passports is frictionless and warns that mandating apps at stadiums would devastate ticket sales. Carlos re-frames the solution as a fast-lane PreCheck alternative that coexists with paper rather than completely replacing it.7:42–12:01 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Bindle's Scan-Based Pricing and Business Model Nathan calculates that charging 10 cents across several thousand scans amounts to only a few hundred dollars a month and presses on active paying customer counts. Carlos acknowledges that monetization is nascent and pricing models are still evolving.12:02–15:44 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Seed Capital and Expanding Beyond Health Records Nathan bluntly challenges the six-founder structure and high headcount burn for a pre-revenue startup. Carlos defends the founding team's complementary skills and explains the capital intensity needed to expand beyond health records into generalized decentralized identity.15:45–17:32 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan proceeds through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite tools, sleep habits, and founder reflections before delivering his summary outro.0:49–3:29 · Guest teaching 5/10 Transforming Health Credentials into Digital Tokens Nathan asks for a lay explanation of NFT-based credentials and pushes on how the platform avoids fraudulent self-issued tokens. Carlos explains verified credential issuers and zero-knowledge cryptographic entry passes.3:30–7:41 · Guest teaching 6/10 Venue Logistics and Coexisting with Paper Passes Nathan argues that showing paper cards and passports is frictionless and warns that mandating apps at stadiums would devastate ticket sales. Carlos re-frames the solution as a fast-lane PreCheck alternative that coexists with paper rather than completely replacing it.7:42–12:01 · Guest teaching 4/10 Bindle's Scan-Based Pricing and Business Model Nathan calculates that charging 10 cents across several thousand scans amounts to only a few hundred dollars a month and presses on active paying customer counts. Carlos acknowledges that monetization is nascent and pricing models are still evolving.12:02–15:44 · Guest teaching 4/10 Seed Capital and Expanding Beyond Health Records Nathan bluntly challenges the six-founder structure and high headcount burn for a pre-revenue startup. Carlos defends the founding team's complementary skills and explains the capital intensity needed to expand beyond health records into generalized decentralized identity.15:45–17:32 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan proceeds through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite tools, sleep habits, and founder reflections before delivering his summary outro.0:49–3:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Transforming Health Credentials into Digital Tokens Nathan asks for a lay explanation of NFT-based credentials and pushes on how the platform avoids fraudulent self-issued tokens. Carlos explains verified credential issuers and zero-knowledge cryptographic entry passes.3:30–7:41 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Venue Logistics and Coexisting with Paper Passes Nathan argues that showing paper cards and passports is frictionless and warns that mandating apps at stadiums would devastate ticket sales. Carlos re-frames the solution as a fast-lane PreCheck alternative that coexists with paper rather than completely replacing it.7:42–12:01 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bindle's Scan-Based Pricing and Business Model Nathan calculates that charging 10 cents across several thousand scans amounts to only a few hundred dollars a month and presses on active paying customer counts. Carlos acknowledges that monetization is nascent and pricing models are still evolving.12:02–15:44 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Seed Capital and Expanding Beyond Health Records Nathan bluntly challenges the six-founder structure and high headcount burn for a pre-revenue startup. Carlos defends the founding team's complementary skills and explains the capital intensity needed to expand beyond health records into generalized decentralized identity.15:45–17:32 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan proceeds through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite tools, sleep habits, and founder reflections before delivering his summary outro.0:49–3:29 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Transforming Health Credentials into Digital Tokens Nathan asks for a lay explanation of NFT-based credentials and pushes on how the platform avoids fraudulent self-issued tokens. Carlos explains verified credential issuers and zero-knowledge cryptographic entry passes.3:30–7:41 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Venue Logistics and Coexisting with Paper Passes Nathan argues that showing paper cards and passports is frictionless and warns that mandating apps at stadiums would devastate ticket sales. Carlos re-frames the solution as a fast-lane PreCheck alternative that coexists with paper rather than completely replacing it.7:42–12:01 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Bindle's Scan-Based Pricing and Business Model Nathan calculates that charging 10 cents across several thousand scans amounts to only a few hundred dollars a month and presses on active paying customer counts. Carlos acknowledges that monetization is nascent and pricing models are still evolving.12:02–15:44 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Seed Capital and Expanding Beyond Health Records Nathan bluntly challenges the six-founder structure and high headcount burn for a pre-revenue startup. Carlos defends the founding team's complementary skills and explains the capital intensity needed to expand beyond health records into generalized decentralized identity.15:45–17:32 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan proceeds through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite tools, sleep habits, and founder reflections before delivering his summary outro.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 36.7% · guest 63.3%0:00 · Nathan 36.7% · guest 63.3%3:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%3:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%6:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%6:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%9:00 · Nathan 40.9% · guest 59.1%9:00 · Nathan 40.9% · guest 59.1%12:00 · Nathan 23.1% · guest 76.9%12:00 · Nathan 23.1% · guest 76.9%15:00 · Nathan 46.9% · guest 53.1%15:00 · Nathan 46.9% · guest 53.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:08 Defending six co-founder governance

Carlos explicitly disagrees with Nathan's claim that a six co-founder setup prevents anything from getting done, asserting that constructive conflict and complementary skills make it work.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:22 Questioning stadium go-to-market viability

Nathan rejects the premise that major sports venues would ever enforce mandatory digital wallets at the gate, arguing it would destroy ticket sales.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:08 Coexisting alongside paper passes

Carlos reframes Bindle's market position, teaching Nathan that the product is modeled like Clear or TSA PreCheck for rapid ingress rather than trying to displace universal paper cards.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:06 Crunching per-scan unit math

Nathan rapidly synthesizes Carlos's pricing and volume figures to expose that Bindle is currently generating under $500 per month in gross revenue.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Transforming Health Credentials into Digital Tokens 4514 Nathan asks for a lay explanation of NFT-based credentials and pushes on how the platform avoids fraudulent self-issued tokens. Carlos explains verified credential issuers and zero-knowledge cryptographic entry passes.
Venue Logistics and Coexisting with Paper Passes 6637 Nathan argues that showing paper cards and passports is frictionless and warns that mandating apps at stadiums would devastate ticket sales. Carlos re-frames the solution as a fast-lane PreCheck alternative that coexists with paper rather than completely replacing it.
Bindle's Scan-Based Pricing and Business Model 6426 Nathan calculates that charging 10 cents across several thousand scans amounts to only a few hundred dollars a month and presses on active paying customer counts. Carlos acknowledges that monetization is nascent and pricing models are still evolving.
Seed Capital and Expanding Beyond Health Records 6447 Nathan bluntly challenges the six-founder structure and high headcount burn for a pre-revenue startup. Carlos defends the founding team's complementary skills and explains the capital intensity needed to expand beyond health records into generalized decentralized identity.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3101 Nathan proceeds through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite tools, sleep habits, and founder reflections before delivering his summary outro.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Bindle converts health records into cryptographic tokens on smartphones
“And in the case of what Bindle is doing, we've decided to take health credentials like vaccine records and test results, turn them into tokens that you can carry around on your phone that are cryptographic assets that are encoded, that are yours, that you can …”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 1:18
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Latka: Major stadiums will never mandate digital wallets for entry
“So like, how do you convince FedEx field and land over Maryland where the Washington football team plays to announce ahead of the game that you must bring your bindle wallet on your phone and show it at the entry. They're never going to do that because it's go…”
Nathan Latka Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 5:31
Disclosure
Bindle is in talks with NFL, NBA, and MLB teams
“We've been talking to specific NFL teams and to NBA teams and maybe major league baseball and they're, and they say things like, Hey, if the pandemic gets worse, we're just going to stop.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 5:59
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Corton: Bindle will not displace paper vaccine cards
“We think that we think that the Bindle solution needs to coexist with paper, like for as long as we can imagine. I don't think that this solution will displace paper.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 7:08
Disclosure
Bindle targets health verification pricing of 10 cents per scan
“It's different in different verticals, but as a benchmark, we shoot for something on the order of 10 cents per scan.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 8:16
Opinion
Corton: Five dollars per seat for health verification is too expensive
“You know, like industry benchmarks are like dollars per, you know, dollars per seat, right? Like five dollars per seat. And so we just feel like the price point should be much lower.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 8:26
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Bindle reaches 100,000 digital wallet installs across 30 states
“We have, I think short of a 100,000 wallets installed and we're operating in 30 states in the U S and then I think two or three Canadian provinces.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 9:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Corton: Bindle has 200 active clients
“Oh, like, we've got, like, we've got 200 active clients right now.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 11:11
Disclosure
Bindle split founding equity evenly among its six co-founders
“Makes it easy. It makes the math easy.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 14:29
Assertion Supported
Clear competes directly with Bindle for NFL health credential contracts
“We talk about, you mentioned clear the airport security company. They're doing a lot of health credentials type business and competing for the NFL teams that we're talking to as well.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 15:19
Assertion Supported
IBM competes with Bindle as New York's health pass vendor
“And we're competing with IBM, which is the service provider for the state of New York. And they've got, you know, they've got a solution in the market and you know, that's our competitive base.”
Carlos Corton Dec 13, 2021 ▶ 15:32
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