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Jan 22, 2022 · 16m · top-founders

Resurface Hits $120k MRR To Protect your API Endpoints

Rob Dickinson · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Rob Dickinson, founder of Resurface.io, joins Nathan Latka to discuss the company's edge-based API observability platform, node-based pricing model, and transition to an enterprise concierge strategy that generated $120,000 in ARR across 12 production nodes.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 3.4 Guest disagreement 3.2 Nathan pushing back 5.4
05100:0010:001:56–4:17 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Metrics Clarification and Service Model Shift Nathan confronts Rob with figures previously stated by co-founder Christine (36 customers and $2k ARPU), challenging Rob when he appears confused. Rob pushes back gently and clarifies those were trial users while explaining their strategic shift from product-led to a concierge service model.4:18–7:36 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Venture Funding and Edge-Based Data Observability Nathan presses on the friction between venture capital expectations and service-heavy business models, while also probing the exact pricing mechanics per node. Rob defends the services component as necessary guidance for an emerging API security market and details their edge data philosophy.7:39–10:53 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath Valuation Tool Following an ad read, Nathan questions if Resurface is reverting to traditional SLA contracts and calls out a discrepancy in headcount (11 reported earlier vs 5 full-time). Rob clarifies the legal definition of full-time employees versus contractors and outlines why direct engineering support benefits product development.10:53–13:16 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Land-and-Expand Strategy and Current ARR Milestones Nathan aggressively drills down from trial POC numbers to actual paying customers and contracted nodes to calculate real ARR. Rob acknowledges that full pricing is achieved through land-and-expand strategies, confirming 12 live nodes generating $120k ARR across 4 paying customers.13:17–16:00 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Fundraising Landscape and Series A Trajectory The conversation shifts to upcoming fundraising dynamics where Rob notes the loose market valuations, followed by a friendly Famous Five wrap-up and Nathan's summary of the business metrics.1:56–4:17 · Guest teaching 4/10 Customer Metrics Clarification and Service Model Shift Nathan confronts Rob with figures previously stated by co-founder Christine (36 customers and $2k ARPU), challenging Rob when he appears confused. Rob pushes back gently and clarifies those were trial users while explaining their strategic shift from product-led to a concierge service model.4:18–7:36 · Guest teaching 5/10 Venture Funding and Edge-Based Data Observability Nathan presses on the friction between venture capital expectations and service-heavy business models, while also probing the exact pricing mechanics per node. Rob defends the services component as necessary guidance for an emerging API security market and details their edge data philosophy.7:39–10:53 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath Valuation Tool Following an ad read, Nathan questions if Resurface is reverting to traditional SLA contracts and calls out a discrepancy in headcount (11 reported earlier vs 5 full-time). Rob clarifies the legal definition of full-time employees versus contractors and outlines why direct engineering support benefits product development.10:53–13:16 · Guest teaching 3/10 Land-and-Expand Strategy and Current ARR Milestones Nathan aggressively drills down from trial POC numbers to actual paying customers and contracted nodes to calculate real ARR. Rob acknowledges that full pricing is achieved through land-and-expand strategies, confirming 12 live nodes generating $120k ARR across 4 paying customers.13:17–16:00 · Guest teaching 2/10 Fundraising Landscape and Series A Trajectory The conversation shifts to upcoming fundraising dynamics where Rob notes the loose market valuations, followed by a friendly Famous Five wrap-up and Nathan's summary of the business metrics.1:56–4:17 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Customer Metrics Clarification and Service Model Shift Nathan confronts Rob with figures previously stated by co-founder Christine (36 customers and $2k ARPU), challenging Rob when he appears confused. Rob pushes back gently and clarifies those were trial users while explaining their strategic shift from product-led to a concierge service model.4:18–7:36 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Venture Funding and Edge-Based Data Observability Nathan presses on the friction between venture capital expectations and service-heavy business models, while also probing the exact pricing mechanics per node. Rob defends the services component as necessary guidance for an emerging API security market and details their edge data philosophy.7:39–10:53 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath Valuation Tool Following an ad read, Nathan questions if Resurface is reverting to traditional SLA contracts and calls out a discrepancy in headcount (11 reported earlier vs 5 full-time). Rob clarifies the legal definition of full-time employees versus contractors and outlines why direct engineering support benefits product development.10:53–13:16 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Land-and-Expand Strategy and Current ARR Milestones Nathan aggressively drills down from trial POC numbers to actual paying customers and contracted nodes to calculate real ARR. Rob acknowledges that full pricing is achieved through land-and-expand strategies, confirming 12 live nodes generating $120k ARR across 4 paying customers.13:17–16:00 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Fundraising Landscape and Series A Trajectory The conversation shifts to upcoming fundraising dynamics where Rob notes the loose market valuations, followed by a friendly Famous Five wrap-up and Nathan's summary of the business metrics.1:56–4:17 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Customer Metrics Clarification and Service Model Shift Nathan confronts Rob with figures previously stated by co-founder Christine (36 customers and $2k ARPU), challenging Rob when he appears confused. Rob pushes back gently and clarifies those were trial users while explaining their strategic shift from product-led to a concierge service model.4:18–7:36 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Venture Funding and Edge-Based Data Observability Nathan presses on the friction between venture capital expectations and service-heavy business models, while also probing the exact pricing mechanics per node. Rob defends the services component as necessary guidance for an emerging API security market and details their edge data philosophy.7:39–10:53 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Sponsor Message: FounderPath Valuation Tool Following an ad read, Nathan questions if Resurface is reverting to traditional SLA contracts and calls out a discrepancy in headcount (11 reported earlier vs 5 full-time). Rob clarifies the legal definition of full-time employees versus contractors and outlines why direct engineering support benefits product development.10:53–13:16 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Land-and-Expand Strategy and Current ARR Milestones Nathan aggressively drills down from trial POC numbers to actual paying customers and contracted nodes to calculate real ARR. Rob acknowledges that full pricing is achieved through land-and-expand strategies, confirming 12 live nodes generating $120k ARR across 4 paying customers.13:17–16:00 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Fundraising Landscape and Series A Trajectory The conversation shifts to upcoming fundraising dynamics where Rob notes the loose market valuations, followed by a friendly Famous Five wrap-up and Nathan's summary of the business metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 64% · guest 36%0:00 · Nathan 64% · guest 36%3:00 · Nathan 20% · guest 80%3:00 · Nathan 20% · guest 80%6:00 · Nathan 50.7% · guest 49.3%6:00 · Nathan 50.7% · guest 49.3%9:00 · Nathan 12.8% · guest 87.2%9:00 · Nathan 12.8% · guest 87.2%12:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%12:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%15:00 · Nathan 60.9% · guest 39.1%15:00 · Nathan 60.9% · guest 39.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 2:12 Rob questions Nathan's interview data

Rob directly questions whether Nathan is confusing Resurface with another company before realizing Nathan interviewed his co-founder Christine.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 2:51 Nathan challenges the 36 customer metric

Nathan presses Rob on why he sounded surprised by the 36 customer figure, forcing Rob to clarify that those were trial accounts rather than paying customers.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:28 Rob explains why early API security requires services

Rob counters Nathan's claim that VCs reject services by explaining that customer education and hands-on guidance are mandatory in nascent security markets.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:53 Nathan cuts through projections to calculate hard ARR

Nathan cuts through future revenue projections and immediately calculates the exact $120k ARR run rate based on the 12 active production nodes.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Customer Metrics Clarification and Service Model Shift 6447 Nathan confronts Rob with figures previously stated by co-founder Christine (36 customers and $2k ARPU), challenging Rob when he appears confused. Rob pushes back gently and clarifies those were trial users while explaining their strategic shift from product-led to a concierge service model.
Venture Funding and Edge-Based Data Observability 6535 Nathan presses on the friction between venture capital expectations and service-heavy business models, while also probing the exact pricing mechanics per node. Rob defends the services component as necessary guidance for an emerging API security market and details their edge data philosophy.
Sponsor Message: FounderPath Valuation Tool 6346 Following an ad read, Nathan questions if Resurface is reverting to traditional SLA contracts and calls out a discrepancy in headcount (11 reported earlier vs 5 full-time). Rob clarifies the legal definition of full-time employees versus contractors and outlines why direct engineering support benefits product development.
Land-and-Expand Strategy and Current ARR Milestones 7336 Nathan aggressively drills down from trial POC numbers to actual paying customers and contracted nodes to calculate real ARR. Rob acknowledges that full pricing is achieved through land-and-expand strategies, confirming 12 live nodes generating $120k ARR across 4 paying customers.
Fundraising Landscape and Series A Trajectory 5223 The conversation shifts to upcoming fundraising dynamics where Rob notes the loose market valuations, followed by a friendly Famous Five wrap-up and Nathan's summary of the business metrics.

Statements from this episode (12)

Opinion
Dickinson: API security market faces a severe human talent shortage
“So there is a huge talent gap right now in the API security market. You can really see that this week with the log for J log for shell meltdown that we're seeing there simply isn't enough human talent to go around. We're not creating those analysts fast enough…”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 1:22
Disclosure
Resurface shifted from product-led growth to a concierge enterprise approach
“And part of that is that we've just shifted from kind of a product led approach to really a concierge led approach.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 3:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dickinson: Major API security firms secretly rely on heavy customer guidance
“So there's a significant amount of guiding right now that all of the major API security firms are doing. And if you talk to them privately, everyone acknowledges this.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 4:45
Opinion
Dickinson: Storing API data with third parties is not the future
“So what we're really focusing on is decentralizing The storage of this information and making sure that this information is stays in the hands of the API providers, rather than handing that data off to a third party that then re monetizes that data. We don't t…”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 5:24
Disclosure
Resurface charges $10,000 per node annually with unlimited data capture
“Our standard pricing is we charge per node. And kind of our opening gambit is 10,000 per node per year, and that's for unlimited data capture on that node.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 6:23
Disclosure
Resurface covers onboarding and charges no setup fees
“We cover the setup. Our goal is to make this easy. Our goal is to have direct relationships with our customers. So the way there is no setup fee.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 7:03
Disclosure
Dickinson: Resurface has five full-time employees
“We are at five full-time people.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 10:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dickinson: Dell achieved years of zero-CAC growth through existing customer upsells
“We had years that we did this at Dell where a majority of our sales went to existing customers where we had virtually no customer acquisition cost.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 12:16
Disclosure
Dickinson: Resurface has four or five fully onboarded paying customers
“We're at four or five, I believe now.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 12:44
Disclosure
Dickinson: Resurface is running 12 production nodes
“We are running, I believe it's 12 nodes in production.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 13:03
Disclosure
Dickinson: Resurface generates roughly $120k in annual revenue
“That's about where we're dialed in. Yeah. Which was about where we hope to be by this point.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 13:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dickinson: Startups Are Raising Funding on Very Little Revenue
“We see people raising money right now on very little revenue. Compared to, you know, what was going on during the pandemic for sure.”
Rob Dickinson Jan 22, 2022 ▶ 14:05
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