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May 17, 2022 · 16m · top-founders

How He Got First 4 Customers Paying $50-$200k ACV's for New CLM Tool

Alex Smith · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Alex Smith, co-founder and Chief Customer Officer of Kuvama, discusses how the company transitioned from a $1 million monetization consultancy into a customer value management SaaS platform commanding $50,000 to $200,000 ACVs with $1.4 million in pre-seed funding.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 32.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.5 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:000:48–3:21 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Alex Smith, Co-Founder of Kuvama Latka opens by demonstrating fluency in SaaS metrics, highlighting Net Dollar Retention and retention strategies. Alex sets the stage by explaining the paradigm shift from traditional customer lifetime value to customer-perceived value.3:21–5:22 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Monetization Structure and ACV Pricing Tiers Latka probes into the mechanics behind Kuvama's $50k to $200k ACV tiers, asking if expansion is seat-based or feature-based. Alex transparently breaks down their hybrid platform fee and user seat model.5:22–8:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Bootstrapping from Agency Consulting to Software Product Latka challenges Alex on why only 4 out of 15 to 20 historical customers remain active, pressing past vague answers to pin down past agency revenue and headcount.8:40–12:23 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Streamlining Data Imports with Flatfile Alex corrects Latka's assumption that the agency was founded purely as a SaaS stepping stone. Latka shows financial expertise by calculating valuation caps and challenging the need for dilutive pre-seed funding.12:23–14:44 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Product Differentiation and Market Positioning Against Gainsight Latka challenges Kuvama's defensibility against incumbent giant Gainsight. Alex firmly reframes the dynamic, educating Latka that Gainsight is post-sale only while Kuvama captures value upstream during the sales cycle.14:44–16:48 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Rapid-Fire Insights: The Famous Five Questions Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of Kuvama's key business metrics in a cooperative atmosphere.0:48–3:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Alex Smith, Co-Founder of Kuvama Latka opens by demonstrating fluency in SaaS metrics, highlighting Net Dollar Retention and retention strategies. Alex sets the stage by explaining the paradigm shift from traditional customer lifetime value to customer-perceived value.3:21–5:22 · Guest teaching 3/10 Monetization Structure and ACV Pricing Tiers Latka probes into the mechanics behind Kuvama's $50k to $200k ACV tiers, asking if expansion is seat-based or feature-based. Alex transparently breaks down their hybrid platform fee and user seat model.5:22–8:37 · Guest teaching 3/10 Bootstrapping from Agency Consulting to Software Product Latka challenges Alex on why only 4 out of 15 to 20 historical customers remain active, pressing past vague answers to pin down past agency revenue and headcount.8:40–12:23 · Guest teaching 4/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Streamlining Data Imports with Flatfile Alex corrects Latka's assumption that the agency was founded purely as a SaaS stepping stone. Latka shows financial expertise by calculating valuation caps and challenging the need for dilutive pre-seed funding.12:23–14:44 · Guest teaching 7/10 Product Differentiation and Market Positioning Against Gainsight Latka challenges Kuvama's defensibility against incumbent giant Gainsight. Alex firmly reframes the dynamic, educating Latka that Gainsight is post-sale only while Kuvama captures value upstream during the sales cycle.14:44–16:48 · Guest teaching 1/10 Rapid-Fire Insights: The Famous Five Questions Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of Kuvama's key business metrics in a cooperative atmosphere.0:48–3:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Alex Smith, Co-Founder of Kuvama Latka opens by demonstrating fluency in SaaS metrics, highlighting Net Dollar Retention and retention strategies. Alex sets the stage by explaining the paradigm shift from traditional customer lifetime value to customer-perceived value.3:21–5:22 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Monetization Structure and ACV Pricing Tiers Latka probes into the mechanics behind Kuvama's $50k to $200k ACV tiers, asking if expansion is seat-based or feature-based. Alex transparently breaks down their hybrid platform fee and user seat model.5:22–8:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapping from Agency Consulting to Software Product Latka challenges Alex on why only 4 out of 15 to 20 historical customers remain active, pressing past vague answers to pin down past agency revenue and headcount.8:40–12:23 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Streamlining Data Imports with Flatfile Alex corrects Latka's assumption that the agency was founded purely as a SaaS stepping stone. Latka shows financial expertise by calculating valuation caps and challenging the need for dilutive pre-seed funding.12:23–14:44 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Product Differentiation and Market Positioning Against Gainsight Latka challenges Kuvama's defensibility against incumbent giant Gainsight. Alex firmly reframes the dynamic, educating Latka that Gainsight is post-sale only while Kuvama captures value upstream during the sales cycle.14:44–16:48 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Rapid-Fire Insights: The Famous Five Questions Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of Kuvama's key business metrics in a cooperative atmosphere.0:48–3:21 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Introducing Alex Smith, Co-Founder of Kuvama Latka opens by demonstrating fluency in SaaS metrics, highlighting Net Dollar Retention and retention strategies. Alex sets the stage by explaining the paradigm shift from traditional customer lifetime value to customer-perceived value.3:21–5:22 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Monetization Structure and ACV Pricing Tiers Latka probes into the mechanics behind Kuvama's $50k to $200k ACV tiers, asking if expansion is seat-based or feature-based. Alex transparently breaks down their hybrid platform fee and user seat model.5:22–8:37 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Bootstrapping from Agency Consulting to Software Product Latka challenges Alex on why only 4 out of 15 to 20 historical customers remain active, pressing past vague answers to pin down past agency revenue and headcount.8:40–12:23 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Streamlining Data Imports with Flatfile Alex corrects Latka's assumption that the agency was founded purely as a SaaS stepping stone. Latka shows financial expertise by calculating valuation caps and challenging the need for dilutive pre-seed funding.12:23–14:44 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Product Differentiation and Market Positioning Against Gainsight Latka challenges Kuvama's defensibility against incumbent giant Gainsight. Alex firmly reframes the dynamic, educating Latka that Gainsight is post-sale only while Kuvama captures value upstream during the sales cycle.14:44–16:48 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Rapid-Fire Insights: The Famous Five Questions Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of Kuvama's key business metrics in a cooperative atmosphere.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 40.5% · guest 59.5%0:00 · Nathan 40.5% · guest 59.5%3:00 · Nathan 16.1% · guest 83.9%3:00 · Nathan 16.1% · guest 83.9%6:00 · Nathan 29.2% · guest 70.8%6:00 · Nathan 29.2% · guest 70.8%9:00 · Nathan 48.7% · guest 51.3%9:00 · Nathan 48.7% · guest 51.3%12:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%12:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%15:00 · Nathan 37.8% · guest 62.2%15:00 · Nathan 37.8% · guest 62.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:32 Alex rejects the Gainsight competitor framing

Alex directly pushes back on Latka's premise that Gainsight is a direct competitor, explaining that their tools operate at completely different stages of the customer journey.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:19 Latka challenges market share viability against Gainsight

Latka aggressively pushes back on market viability by pointing out that billion-dollar incumbent Gainsight already dominates customer success.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:32 Educating on pre-sale value management versus post-sale CS

Alex systematically educates Latka on the distinction between post-sale CS tooling and upstream value management originating in pre-sales and CRM workflows.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:20 Latka questions taking equity dilution

Latka demonstrates sharp venture capital fluency by calculating implied valuations and challenging why a bootstrapped company generating cash flow would take heavy seed dilution.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Alex Smith, Co-Founder of Kuvama 5311 Latka opens by demonstrating fluency in SaaS metrics, highlighting Net Dollar Retention and retention strategies. Alex sets the stage by explaining the paradigm shift from traditional customer lifetime value to customer-perceived value.
Monetization Structure and ACV Pricing Tiers 6313 Latka probes into the mechanics behind Kuvama's $50k to $200k ACV tiers, asking if expansion is seat-based or feature-based. Alex transparently breaks down their hybrid platform fee and user seat model.
Bootstrapping from Agency Consulting to Software Product 6326 Latka challenges Alex on why only 4 out of 15 to 20 historical customers remain active, pressing past vague answers to pin down past agency revenue and headcount.
Sponsor Spotlight: Streamlining Data Imports with Flatfile 7436 Alex corrects Latka's assumption that the agency was founded purely as a SaaS stepping stone. Latka shows financial expertise by calculating valuation caps and challenging the need for dilutive pre-seed funding.
Product Differentiation and Market Positioning Against Gainsight 6746 Latka challenges Kuvama's defensibility against incumbent giant Gainsight. Alex firmly reframes the dynamic, educating Latka that Gainsight is post-sale only while Kuvama captures value upstream during the sales cycle.
Rapid-Fire Insights: The Famous Five Questions 3101 Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of Kuvama's key business metrics in a cooperative atmosphere.

Statements from this episode (8)

Insight
Kuvama wants to measure LTV as value delivered to the buyer
“In the traditional world of SaaS, customer lifetime value has been the lifetime value of a customer to the company. Our vision is to try to flip that on its head and actually move it to be more of the value, the lifetime value for the end customer.”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 2:13
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Smith: Kuvama customer contracts range from $50k to $200k annually
“No, we are we're definitely post revenue. So it's, you know, in terms of kind of what are they paying? It depends a little bit on the size. It, the moment it ranges from maybe 50 K dollars per year, 50,000 dollars per year up to around 200,000 dollars per year…”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 3:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Smith: Kuvama has four customers paying monthly for its software platform
“That's four of them that are paying us per month.”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 7:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kuvama reached nearly $1 million in total revenue in 2021
“In 20, 21, we were close to a million dollars in total revenue for the company.”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 10:48
Assertion Supported
Kuvama raised $1.4 million in pre-seed funding
“1.1 million pounds. So that equates to around 1.4 plus a million dollars.”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 11:58
Assertion Supported
Kuvama's pre-seed funding was a priced equity round
“Priced.”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 12:19
Opinion
Gainsight does not compete with Kuvama, says founder Alex Smith
“Gainsight is not a competitor to really what we're trying to do in that the Gainsight is just focused on the customer success Phase of the customer journey.”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 13:32
Disclosure
BetterCloud CEO David Politis advises Kuvama on category building
“Yes, we have a relationship with somebody called David Politis, who is a CEO of BetterCloud. He's been helping with a bit of advice, a lot of kind of experience in building a category and what that meant.”
Alex Smith May 17, 2022 ▶ 15:07
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