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Aug 19, 2022 · 17m · top-founders

You should hire him to be your SDR. He's crushing it for 45 B2B SaaS founders already.

Andrew Jacoby · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, Next Sales co-founder Andrew Jacoby discusses scaling an outsourced SDR service to $140,000 in monthly recurring revenue, detailing his decision to step down as CEO to improve operations, the unit economics of offshore sales development, and the outbound math required for B2B SaaS success.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 34.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 4.3 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 4.2
05100:0010:000:45–3:20 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Andrew Jacoby and Stepping Down as CEO Nathan probes why Andrew stepped down as CEO and notes his preference for pure SaaS over human-intensive agency models. Andrew transparently walks through his revenue milestones and self-awareness about operational limitations.3:21–5:42 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Tackling Customer Churn and Stabilizing Monthly Recurring Revenue Nathan presses Andrew on historical churn numbers. Andrew gently reframes the churn issue around net revenue retention and explains the high upfront client drop-off before hitting the six-month ROI milestone.5:48–8:31 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Outsourced SDR Engine and Eastern European Labor Strategy Nathan calculates that 53 employees on a $1.6M run rate yields a low $31k revenue per employee. Andrew explains their operational model relies on Eastern European talent and software automation.8:33–12:06 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Mid-Roll Announcement: Founder 500 Conference in Austin Nathan raises customer skepticism about offshore SDR accents and pushes on what is automated versus manual. Andrew counters with empirical testing and explains that 80 to 90 percent of conversions still come from phone calls.12:06–14:31 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Outbound Sales Math and the $20k ACV Requirement When Andrew cannot recall monthly meeting totals and hedges on whether outbound works below a $20k ACV, Nathan interrupts and asserts that low contract values make outbound unit economics mathematically impossible.14:31–17:30 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Bootstrapping Growth Strategy and Vetting Outsourced Sales Agencies Nathan asks how buyers should evaluate competing SDR agencies, and Andrew recommends speaking directly to clients. The segment wraps up with standard Famous Five questions and a host summary.0:45–3:20 · Guest teaching 4/10 Introducing Andrew Jacoby and Stepping Down as CEO Nathan probes why Andrew stepped down as CEO and notes his preference for pure SaaS over human-intensive agency models. Andrew transparently walks through his revenue milestones and self-awareness about operational limitations.3:21–5:42 · Guest teaching 5/10 Tackling Customer Churn and Stabilizing Monthly Recurring Revenue Nathan presses Andrew on historical churn numbers. Andrew gently reframes the churn issue around net revenue retention and explains the high upfront client drop-off before hitting the six-month ROI milestone.5:48–8:31 · Guest teaching 4/10 Outsourced SDR Engine and Eastern European Labor Strategy Nathan calculates that 53 employees on a $1.6M run rate yields a low $31k revenue per employee. Andrew explains their operational model relies on Eastern European talent and software automation.8:33–12:06 · Guest teaching 6/10 Mid-Roll Announcement: Founder 500 Conference in Austin Nathan raises customer skepticism about offshore SDR accents and pushes on what is automated versus manual. Andrew counters with empirical testing and explains that 80 to 90 percent of conversions still come from phone calls.12:06–14:31 · Guest teaching 3/10 Outbound Sales Math and the $20k ACV Requirement When Andrew cannot recall monthly meeting totals and hedges on whether outbound works below a $20k ACV, Nathan interrupts and asserts that low contract values make outbound unit economics mathematically impossible.14:31–17:30 · Guest teaching 4/10 Bootstrapping Growth Strategy and Vetting Outsourced Sales Agencies Nathan asks how buyers should evaluate competing SDR agencies, and Andrew recommends speaking directly to clients. The segment wraps up with standard Famous Five questions and a host summary.0:45–3:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Andrew Jacoby and Stepping Down as CEO Nathan probes why Andrew stepped down as CEO and notes his preference for pure SaaS over human-intensive agency models. Andrew transparently walks through his revenue milestones and self-awareness about operational limitations.3:21–5:42 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Tackling Customer Churn and Stabilizing Monthly Recurring Revenue Nathan presses Andrew on historical churn numbers. Andrew gently reframes the churn issue around net revenue retention and explains the high upfront client drop-off before hitting the six-month ROI milestone.5:48–8:31 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Outsourced SDR Engine and Eastern European Labor Strategy Nathan calculates that 53 employees on a $1.6M run rate yields a low $31k revenue per employee. Andrew explains their operational model relies on Eastern European talent and software automation.8:33–12:06 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Mid-Roll Announcement: Founder 500 Conference in Austin Nathan raises customer skepticism about offshore SDR accents and pushes on what is automated versus manual. Andrew counters with empirical testing and explains that 80 to 90 percent of conversions still come from phone calls.12:06–14:31 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Outbound Sales Math and the $20k ACV Requirement When Andrew cannot recall monthly meeting totals and hedges on whether outbound works below a $20k ACV, Nathan interrupts and asserts that low contract values make outbound unit economics mathematically impossible.14:31–17:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapping Growth Strategy and Vetting Outsourced Sales Agencies Nathan asks how buyers should evaluate competing SDR agencies, and Andrew recommends speaking directly to clients. The segment wraps up with standard Famous Five questions and a host summary.0:45–3:20 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Andrew Jacoby and Stepping Down as CEO Nathan probes why Andrew stepped down as CEO and notes his preference for pure SaaS over human-intensive agency models. Andrew transparently walks through his revenue milestones and self-awareness about operational limitations.3:21–5:42 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Tackling Customer Churn and Stabilizing Monthly Recurring Revenue Nathan presses Andrew on historical churn numbers. Andrew gently reframes the churn issue around net revenue retention and explains the high upfront client drop-off before hitting the six-month ROI milestone.5:48–8:31 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Outsourced SDR Engine and Eastern European Labor Strategy Nathan calculates that 53 employees on a $1.6M run rate yields a low $31k revenue per employee. Andrew explains their operational model relies on Eastern European talent and software automation.8:33–12:06 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Mid-Roll Announcement: Founder 500 Conference in Austin Nathan raises customer skepticism about offshore SDR accents and pushes on what is automated versus manual. Andrew counters with empirical testing and explains that 80 to 90 percent of conversions still come from phone calls.12:06–14:31 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Outbound Sales Math and the $20k ACV Requirement When Andrew cannot recall monthly meeting totals and hedges on whether outbound works below a $20k ACV, Nathan interrupts and asserts that low contract values make outbound unit economics mathematically impossible.14:31–17:30 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Bootstrapping Growth Strategy and Vetting Outsourced Sales Agencies Nathan asks how buyers should evaluate competing SDR agencies, and Andrew recommends speaking directly to clients. The segment wraps up with standard Famous Five questions and a host summary.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%0:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%3:00 · Nathan 11.9% · guest 88.1%3:00 · Nathan 11.9% · guest 88.1%6:00 · Nathan 37.9% · guest 62.1%6:00 · Nathan 37.9% · guest 62.1%9:00 · Nathan 32.7% · guest 67.3%9:00 · Nathan 32.7% · guest 67.3%12:00 · Nathan 36.6% · guest 63.4%12:00 · Nathan 36.6% · guest 63.4%15:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%15:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:18 Andrew rejects accent bias with empirical ROI data

Andrew firmly pushes back against Nathan's premise that US clients reject Eastern European SDR accents, stating that data-driven ROI matters far more than assumptions.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:00 Nathan shuts down lower ACV feasibility

When Andrew suggests an outbound SDR model could still work at lower contract sizes, Nathan directly contradicts him, arguing the lead volume required makes it non-viable.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:06 Dispelling the push-button automation myth

Andrew corrects the widespread assumption that automated software drives modern outbound sales, revealing that 80 to 90 percent of booked meetings come from manual phone calls.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:44 Nathan lectures on SaaS unit economics and deal size

Nathan steps in to dissect the math of customer acquisition cost and close rates, instructing founders that scaling to $10M ARR requires higher ACVs.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Andrew Jacoby and Stepping Down as CEO 5412 Nathan probes why Andrew stepped down as CEO and notes his preference for pure SaaS over human-intensive agency models. Andrew transparently walks through his revenue milestones and self-awareness about operational limitations.
Tackling Customer Churn and Stabilizing Monthly Recurring Revenue 5524 Nathan presses Andrew on historical churn numbers. Andrew gently reframes the churn issue around net revenue retention and explains the high upfront client drop-off before hitting the six-month ROI milestone.
Outsourced SDR Engine and Eastern European Labor Strategy 7425 Nathan calculates that 53 employees on a $1.6M run rate yields a low $31k revenue per employee. Andrew explains their operational model relies on Eastern European talent and software automation.
Mid-Roll Announcement: Founder 500 Conference in Austin 5635 Nathan raises customer skepticism about offshore SDR accents and pushes on what is automated versus manual. Andrew counters with empirical testing and explains that 80 to 90 percent of conversions still come from phone calls.
Outbound Sales Math and the $20k ACV Requirement 8337 When Andrew cannot recall monthly meeting totals and hedges on whether outbound works below a $20k ACV, Nathan interrupts and asserts that low contract values make outbound unit economics mathematically impossible.
Bootstrapping Growth Strategy and Vetting Outsourced Sales Agencies 5412 Nathan asks how buyers should evaluate competing SDR agencies, and Andrew recommends speaking directly to clients. The segment wraps up with standard Famous Five questions and a host summary.

Statements from this episode (14)

Disclosure
Jacoby stepped down as CEO to hand operations to a stronger operator
“I'm more of a creative zero to one kind of person. And once I got the thing to a certain level that it went from ideas to, Hey man, spreadsheets, HR, finance, I had to tap out and bring somebody else in who can operate at that level better than I could.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 1:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Next Sales grew from $129K in 2019 to $1.2M in 2021
“Our first year was 2019. We did about a 129,000 year two. We did about four 50 and it started to get a little bit raggedy around the edges, around that half a million mark year three. We did about a 1.2 million. And that was when I tapped out at the sort of ar…”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 2:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Next Sales charges $3,800 per month per outsourced SDR seat
“Well, for us, it's 3800 a month per a thousand contacts works that we consider a seat of SDR service.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 4:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jacoby: Next Sales net revenue retention is around 105%
“Right now we have net positive. So we're, you know, we're probably a 105%.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 5:06
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Jacoby: Next Sales will reach $135K-$140K MRR this month
“This month we'll probably do between 135 to 140 K MRR.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 5:24
Disclosure
Jacoby: Next Sales employs 36 SDRs and 53 total staff
“Right now we have 36 SDRs. Yeah, we have 36 SDRs, 53 employees total.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 7:26
Disclosure
Next Sales slashed headcount from over 105 to 53 to improve efficiency
“At one point we were over a 105 employees and we've slimmed the model down.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 7:38
Insight
Jacoby: Eastern Europe offers the best SDR talent for the cost
“And we found that the best talent that we've been able to find for the spend is in Eastern Europe. And this is after testing everywhere you can imagine.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 8:17
Insight
Jacoby: Strong accents do not determine an offshore SDR's success
“I could put you on the phone with two SDRs. One would have an accent that's strong and the other one would have an accent that's weaker. And you would be surprised sometimes like That's not the determining factor of success. There's X factors. There's emotiona…”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 9:56
Disclosure
Jacoby: Next Sales serves about 45 active clients
“We have about 45 different clients right now at all sizes.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 10:23
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jacoby: 80% to 90% of our booked meetings come from cold calls
“I will tell you this today, Nathan, 80 to 90% of the results meeting the leads that the meetings that we book are human being picking up a telephone, speaking to another human being and booking that meeting.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 11:14
Insight
Jacoby: Outbound SDR models ideally require at least a $20k ACV
“We say 20, the more the merrier, but in an ideal world, you at least have a 20 grand ACV.”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 13:45
Insight
Latka: Building a $10M SaaS company requires $50k-$60k deals
“Guys, if you want to build a ten million dollar SaaS company, you have to have a clear path to an engine that allows you to close 50,060 thousand a year deals.”
Nathan Latka Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 14:12
Disclosure
Jacoby: Next Sales Remains Bootstrapped Despite Inbound Investor Interest
“We've had people ask at the moment, no, we're happy to run on our own capital at the moment. We're not saying that, not, not in, you know, it might happen in the future, but at the moment we're happy. We don't see a better return for our own money, except in t…”
Andrew Jacoby Aug 19, 2022 ▶ 14:38
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