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Dec 16, 2022 · 22m · top-founders

SMB Tax App hits $20k MRR by getting 1k+ Signups and Converting 20-50% to $35/mo paid accounts

Enzo Ottens · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, host Nathan Latka speaks with Earner co-founder and CEO Enzo Ottens about how the UK robo-accountancy platform achieved over $20,000 in monthly recurring revenue by leveraging open banking, high-converting freemium funnels, and capital-efficient product development.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.9 Guest teaching 3.1 Guest disagreement 3.4 Nathan pushing back 5.3
05100:0010:0020:001:29–4:22 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Earner's Robo-Accountancy Model and Pricing Structure Latka explores Erner's pricing model, product scope, and launch timeline. Ottens clarifies British terminology like sole trader and outlines early customer acquisition via digital markets.4:24–7:23 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Performance Marketing, TikTok Ads, and CAC Efficiency Latka skeptically mocks Ottens' description of their TikTok creative as boring and ineffective. Ottens pushes back by pointing out Latka is not their target demographic of female Etsy sellers and gig workers.7:23–10:05 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 The NDR vs. Monthly Active Usage Debate Latka presses hard on why Ottens is not tracking Net Dollar Retention or churn against their customer acquisition costs. Ottens defends his early-stage focus on monthly active usage and qualitative user happiness.10:05–12:15 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Defining Active Engagement and Bank Connection Activation Latka challenges the validity of basic login metrics, noting bankrupt companies boast high MAUs without real usage. Ottens clarifies that true activation is defined by bank connection and tax ID entry.12:15–14:44 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Open Banking Adoption and Retention Benchmarks Ottens details open banking adoption in the UK and his 60-70% retention target. When Latka argues high retention percentages mean nothing on small user bases, Ottens firmly reminds him they have thousands of users.14:45–17:59 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Seasonal Install Trends and Off-Season Acquisition Latka inquires about off-season organic growth and fundraising terms with Antler. Ottens explains seasonal acquisition spikes and capital efficiency.17:59–20:20 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Freemium Conversion Rates and Paying Account Estimates Latka parses the difference between registered users and paying subscribers, establishing that conversion rates sit high between 20% and 50%.20:21–21:41 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Revenue Milestone Calculations and MRR Trajectory Latka synthesizes the math to project Erner's MRR between $20k and $150k before concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.1:29–4:22 · Guest teaching 3/10 Earner's Robo-Accountancy Model and Pricing Structure Latka explores Erner's pricing model, product scope, and launch timeline. Ottens clarifies British terminology like sole trader and outlines early customer acquisition via digital markets.4:24–7:23 · Guest teaching 4/10 Performance Marketing, TikTok Ads, and CAC Efficiency Latka skeptically mocks Ottens' description of their TikTok creative as boring and ineffective. Ottens pushes back by pointing out Latka is not their target demographic of female Etsy sellers and gig workers.7:23–10:05 · Guest teaching 3/10 The NDR vs. Monthly Active Usage Debate Latka presses hard on why Ottens is not tracking Net Dollar Retention or churn against their customer acquisition costs. Ottens defends his early-stage focus on monthly active usage and qualitative user happiness.10:05–12:15 · Guest teaching 5/10 Defining Active Engagement and Bank Connection Activation Latka challenges the validity of basic login metrics, noting bankrupt companies boast high MAUs without real usage. Ottens clarifies that true activation is defined by bank connection and tax ID entry.12:15–14:44 · Guest teaching 4/10 Open Banking Adoption and Retention Benchmarks Ottens details open banking adoption in the UK and his 60-70% retention target. When Latka argues high retention percentages mean nothing on small user bases, Ottens firmly reminds him they have thousands of users.14:45–17:59 · Guest teaching 3/10 Seasonal Install Trends and Off-Season Acquisition Latka inquires about off-season organic growth and fundraising terms with Antler. Ottens explains seasonal acquisition spikes and capital efficiency.17:59–20:20 · Guest teaching 2/10 Freemium Conversion Rates and Paying Account Estimates Latka parses the difference between registered users and paying subscribers, establishing that conversion rates sit high between 20% and 50%.20:21–21:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 Revenue Milestone Calculations and MRR Trajectory Latka synthesizes the math to project Erner's MRR between $20k and $150k before concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.1:29–4:22 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Earner's Robo-Accountancy Model and Pricing Structure Latka explores Erner's pricing model, product scope, and launch timeline. Ottens clarifies British terminology like sole trader and outlines early customer acquisition via digital markets.4:24–7:23 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Performance Marketing, TikTok Ads, and CAC Efficiency Latka skeptically mocks Ottens' description of their TikTok creative as boring and ineffective. Ottens pushes back by pointing out Latka is not their target demographic of female Etsy sellers and gig workers.7:23–10:05 · Guest disagreement 5/10 The NDR vs. Monthly Active Usage Debate Latka presses hard on why Ottens is not tracking Net Dollar Retention or churn against their customer acquisition costs. Ottens defends his early-stage focus on monthly active usage and qualitative user happiness.10:05–12:15 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Defining Active Engagement and Bank Connection Activation Latka challenges the validity of basic login metrics, noting bankrupt companies boast high MAUs without real usage. Ottens clarifies that true activation is defined by bank connection and tax ID entry.12:15–14:44 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Open Banking Adoption and Retention Benchmarks Ottens details open banking adoption in the UK and his 60-70% retention target. When Latka argues high retention percentages mean nothing on small user bases, Ottens firmly reminds him they have thousands of users.14:45–17:59 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Seasonal Install Trends and Off-Season Acquisition Latka inquires about off-season organic growth and fundraising terms with Antler. Ottens explains seasonal acquisition spikes and capital efficiency.17:59–20:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Freemium Conversion Rates and Paying Account Estimates Latka parses the difference between registered users and paying subscribers, establishing that conversion rates sit high between 20% and 50%.20:21–21:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Milestone Calculations and MRR Trajectory Latka synthesizes the math to project Erner's MRR between $20k and $150k before concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.1:29–4:22 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Earner's Robo-Accountancy Model and Pricing Structure Latka explores Erner's pricing model, product scope, and launch timeline. Ottens clarifies British terminology like sole trader and outlines early customer acquisition via digital markets.4:24–7:23 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Performance Marketing, TikTok Ads, and CAC Efficiency Latka skeptically mocks Ottens' description of their TikTok creative as boring and ineffective. Ottens pushes back by pointing out Latka is not their target demographic of female Etsy sellers and gig workers.7:23–10:05 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 The NDR vs. Monthly Active Usage Debate Latka presses hard on why Ottens is not tracking Net Dollar Retention or churn against their customer acquisition costs. Ottens defends his early-stage focus on monthly active usage and qualitative user happiness.10:05–12:15 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Defining Active Engagement and Bank Connection Activation Latka challenges the validity of basic login metrics, noting bankrupt companies boast high MAUs without real usage. Ottens clarifies that true activation is defined by bank connection and tax ID entry.12:15–14:44 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Open Banking Adoption and Retention Benchmarks Ottens details open banking adoption in the UK and his 60-70% retention target. When Latka argues high retention percentages mean nothing on small user bases, Ottens firmly reminds him they have thousands of users.14:45–17:59 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Seasonal Install Trends and Off-Season Acquisition Latka inquires about off-season organic growth and fundraising terms with Antler. Ottens explains seasonal acquisition spikes and capital efficiency.17:59–20:20 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Freemium Conversion Rates and Paying Account Estimates Latka parses the difference between registered users and paying subscribers, establishing that conversion rates sit high between 20% and 50%.20:21–21:41 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Revenue Milestone Calculations and MRR Trajectory Latka synthesizes the math to project Erner's MRR between $20k and $150k before concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 59% · guest 41%0:00 · Nathan 59% · guest 41%3:00 · Nathan 28% · guest 72%3:00 · Nathan 28% · guest 72%6:00 · Nathan 32.7% · guest 67.3%6:00 · Nathan 32.7% · guest 67.3%9:00 · Nathan 36.9% · guest 63.1%9:00 · Nathan 36.9% · guest 63.1%12:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%12:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%15:00 · Nathan 44.7% · guest 55.3%15:00 · Nathan 44.7% · guest 55.3%18:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%18:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%21:00 · Nathan 79.1% · guest 20.9%21:00 · Nathan 79.1% · guest 20.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 6:06 Dismissing host's creative critique

Ottens directly counters Latka's claim that their TikTok ad is unwatchable by stating Latka is outside their target demographic of female creators and gig workers.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:27 Latka challenges lack of CAC payback tracking

Latka refuses to let Ottens deflect on unit economics, illustrating how failing to measure retention means they could easily lose money on paid acquisition.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:11 Defining true activation in fintech

Ottens educates Latka on the specific user action that truly signals downstream revenue: linking open banking transaction feeds and national insurance numbers.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 20:27 Latka models business revenue brackets live

Latka demonstrates his financial modelling expertise by instantly translating disclosed user numbers and conversion bands into concrete MRR brackets.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Earner's Robo-Accountancy Model and Pricing Structure 5323 Latka explores Erner's pricing model, product scope, and launch timeline. Ottens clarifies British terminology like sole trader and outlines early customer acquisition via digital markets.
Performance Marketing, TikTok Ads, and CAC Efficiency 6456 Latka skeptically mocks Ottens' description of their TikTok creative as boring and ineffective. Ottens pushes back by pointing out Latka is not their target demographic of female Etsy sellers and gig workers.
The NDR vs. Monthly Active Usage Debate 7358 Latka presses hard on why Ottens is not tracking Net Dollar Retention or churn against their customer acquisition costs. Ottens defends his early-stage focus on monthly active usage and qualitative user happiness.
Defining Active Engagement and Bank Connection Activation 7547 Latka challenges the validity of basic login metrics, noting bankrupt companies boast high MAUs without real usage. Ottens clarifies that true activation is defined by bank connection and tax ID entry.
Open Banking Adoption and Retention Benchmarks 6456 Ottens details open banking adoption in the UK and his 60-70% retention target. When Latka argues high retention percentages mean nothing on small user bases, Ottens firmly reminds him they have thousands of users.
Seasonal Install Trends and Off-Season Acquisition 5335 Latka inquires about off-season organic growth and fundraising terms with Antler. Ottens explains seasonal acquisition spikes and capital efficiency.
Freemium Conversion Rates and Paying Account Estimates 6225 Latka parses the difference between registered users and paying subscribers, establishing that conversion rates sit high between 20% and 50%.
Revenue Milestone Calculations and MRR Trajectory 5112 Latka synthesizes the math to project Erner's MRR between $20k and $150k before concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.

Statements from this episode (14)

Disclosure
Earner charges sole traders £30 and limited companies £50-£100 monthly
“We charge them subscription-wise 30 pounds if you're a sole trader, and then limited companies anywhere between 50 and a hundred.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 2:20
Insight
Average customer retention in accounting software is 10 years
“Something to keep in mind is that your average retention when it comes to accounting is 10 years.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 4:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Most Earner users are women, Etsy sellers, and gig workers
“Like most of our customers are women. Most of our customers are kind of people that like Etsy sellers, gig workers.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 6:16
Disclosure
Earner capped peak paid ad spend at roughly $2,000 weekly
“Way less than that. We last tax trend season, I think the highest we went is maybe two grand a week. But never higher than that.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 6:58
Disclosure
Earner prioritizes monthly active usage over net dollar retention
“We're not actively measuring all the dollar retention figures. Like we're focusing more on just kind of what we built so far. We're looking a lot more into monthly active users and what different features within our app our customers use.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 8:10
Insight
Bank connection and tax IDs drive paid conversion for Earner
“The key activation that we've seen is does somebody trust us to connect their bank accounts in the app? So kind of how we automate it is we get access to transaction data and that kind of powers the rest of the features. That is our key activation metric. How …”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 11:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
About 20% of Earner users connect bank accounts immediately upon download
“Around a fifth of our customers connect their bank account straight when they download the app.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 12:24
Disclosure
Earner is currently spending zero dollars on customer acquisition
“At the moment, we're not spending any money on, on anything in terms of acquisition.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 14:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Earner gets hundreds of organic signups per month off-season
“Outside tax season is hundreds.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 15:20
Assertion Supported
Antler's standard accelerator deal is $100k-$150k for roughly 10% equity
“I think their standard terms it depends on the location, but it's anywhere between a hundred and a 150 or somewhere close to 10%.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 16:15
Assertion Supported
Earner has raised less than $1 million to date
“We've raised less than a million so far.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 16:31
Opinion
US tax complexity makes it Earner's prime expansion target
“We think the US is a really interesting market when it comes to accounting and tax, probably even way more complicated than it is here. And the fact that everybody has to do a tax return there right here is mainly still small businesses is very interesting opp…”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 17:10
Insight
Accounting data unlocks cross-selling for insurance, loans, and SMB services
“Accounting kind of cuts through a lot of the different Costs of a small business. We can see what kind of insurance you have. We can see what kind of loans you have. We can see what other services you use as part of managing your business. I think there is a r…”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 17:23
Insight
Fintech apps need 20% to 50% freemium conversion to be sustainable
“Acquisition costs and fintechs are so high, I think you need to have anywhere between 20 and 50% for this to be a sustainable business model.”
Enzo Ottens Dec 16, 2022 ▶ 18:52
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