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Oct 13, 2023 · 19m · top-founders

How he spun his software out of a corporation and hit first 5 paying customers

Yannick Dickel · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, host Nathan Latka speaks with Conveino co-founder Yannick Dickel about spinning an employee appreciation SaaS platform out of industrial giant TRUMPF, structuring pricing and agency partner channels, and scaling to initial paying enterprise customers while preparing for seed fundraising.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 4.3
05100:0010:000:38–4:36 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Executive Overview of Conveino's Corporate Spinoff and Metrics Latka challenges the core value proposition of the software, pressing Dickel on why companies wouldn't simply use a free Typeform survey or a standard Slack channel. Dickel defends the platform by clarifying that informal channels do not scale effectively in enterprise organizations with thousands of employees.4:37–7:55 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Pricing Model and Enterprise Contract Structure Latka explores the per-seat pricing model, customer contract values, and the corporate spinoff origins from Trumpf. The exchange is largely collaborative as Dickel details the t-shirt sizing rollout model and equity distribution.7:55–11:19 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sales Strategy: Direct Outreach and Consultant Partnerships Dickel details customer acquisition methods, breaking down direct outreach and their 20% recurring revenue share model for agency partners. Latka probes into the conversion funnel between pilot trials and paying customer accounts.11:19–14:26 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Fundraising Strategy, Valuation Multiples, and Financial Reconciliation Latka catches a major discrepancy in revenue figures when Dickel cites $30k ARR rather than the previously agreed $60k ARR estimate. Latka presses aggressively on the reconciliation, pointing out the founder is asking for a steep 41.7x forward multiple.14:26–17:42 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 R&D Capital Allocation, Engineering Contractors, and Headcount Latka drills down on R&D expenditure and expresses disbelief when learning the company spends $25k monthly on just 1.5 contracted engineering full-time equivalents. He pushes Dickel on why they have not internalized these hires given the lack of labor arbitrage.17:42–18:38 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Yannick Dickel Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, covering favorite business books, CEOs, tools, and personal background smoothly without friction.0:38–4:36 · Guest teaching 2/10 Executive Overview of Conveino's Corporate Spinoff and Metrics Latka challenges the core value proposition of the software, pressing Dickel on why companies wouldn't simply use a free Typeform survey or a standard Slack channel. Dickel defends the platform by clarifying that informal channels do not scale effectively in enterprise organizations with thousands of employees.4:37–7:55 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pricing Model and Enterprise Contract Structure Latka explores the per-seat pricing model, customer contract values, and the corporate spinoff origins from Trumpf. The exchange is largely collaborative as Dickel details the t-shirt sizing rollout model and equity distribution.7:55–11:19 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sales Strategy: Direct Outreach and Consultant Partnerships Dickel details customer acquisition methods, breaking down direct outreach and their 20% recurring revenue share model for agency partners. Latka probes into the conversion funnel between pilot trials and paying customer accounts.11:19–14:26 · Guest teaching 1/10 Fundraising Strategy, Valuation Multiples, and Financial Reconciliation Latka catches a major discrepancy in revenue figures when Dickel cites $30k ARR rather than the previously agreed $60k ARR estimate. Latka presses aggressively on the reconciliation, pointing out the founder is asking for a steep 41.7x forward multiple.14:26–17:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 R&D Capital Allocation, Engineering Contractors, and Headcount Latka drills down on R&D expenditure and expresses disbelief when learning the company spends $25k monthly on just 1.5 contracted engineering full-time equivalents. He pushes Dickel on why they have not internalized these hires given the lack of labor arbitrage.17:42–18:38 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Yannick Dickel Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, covering favorite business books, CEOs, tools, and personal background smoothly without friction.0:38–4:36 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Executive Overview of Conveino's Corporate Spinoff and Metrics Latka challenges the core value proposition of the software, pressing Dickel on why companies wouldn't simply use a free Typeform survey or a standard Slack channel. Dickel defends the platform by clarifying that informal channels do not scale effectively in enterprise organizations with thousands of employees.4:37–7:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pricing Model and Enterprise Contract Structure Latka explores the per-seat pricing model, customer contract values, and the corporate spinoff origins from Trumpf. The exchange is largely collaborative as Dickel details the t-shirt sizing rollout model and equity distribution.7:55–11:19 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sales Strategy: Direct Outreach and Consultant Partnerships Dickel details customer acquisition methods, breaking down direct outreach and their 20% recurring revenue share model for agency partners. Latka probes into the conversion funnel between pilot trials and paying customer accounts.11:19–14:26 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Fundraising Strategy, Valuation Multiples, and Financial Reconciliation Latka catches a major discrepancy in revenue figures when Dickel cites $30k ARR rather than the previously agreed $60k ARR estimate. Latka presses aggressively on the reconciliation, pointing out the founder is asking for a steep 41.7x forward multiple.14:26–17:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 R&D Capital Allocation, Engineering Contractors, and Headcount Latka drills down on R&D expenditure and expresses disbelief when learning the company spends $25k monthly on just 1.5 contracted engineering full-time equivalents. He pushes Dickel on why they have not internalized these hires given the lack of labor arbitrage.17:42–18:38 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Yannick Dickel Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, covering favorite business books, CEOs, tools, and personal background smoothly without friction.0:38–4:36 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Executive Overview of Conveino's Corporate Spinoff and Metrics Latka challenges the core value proposition of the software, pressing Dickel on why companies wouldn't simply use a free Typeform survey or a standard Slack channel. Dickel defends the platform by clarifying that informal channels do not scale effectively in enterprise organizations with thousands of employees.4:37–7:55 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Pricing Model and Enterprise Contract Structure Latka explores the per-seat pricing model, customer contract values, and the corporate spinoff origins from Trumpf. The exchange is largely collaborative as Dickel details the t-shirt sizing rollout model and equity distribution.7:55–11:19 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Sales Strategy: Direct Outreach and Consultant Partnerships Dickel details customer acquisition methods, breaking down direct outreach and their 20% recurring revenue share model for agency partners. Latka probes into the conversion funnel between pilot trials and paying customer accounts.11:19–14:26 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Fundraising Strategy, Valuation Multiples, and Financial Reconciliation Latka catches a major discrepancy in revenue figures when Dickel cites $30k ARR rather than the previously agreed $60k ARR estimate. Latka presses aggressively on the reconciliation, pointing out the founder is asking for a steep 41.7x forward multiple.14:26–17:42 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 R&D Capital Allocation, Engineering Contractors, and Headcount Latka drills down on R&D expenditure and expresses disbelief when learning the company spends $25k monthly on just 1.5 contracted engineering full-time equivalents. He pushes Dickel on why they have not internalized these hires given the lack of labor arbitrage.17:42–18:38 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Yannick Dickel Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, covering favorite business books, CEOs, tools, and personal background smoothly without friction.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 63.3% · guest 36.7%0:00 · Nathan 63.3% · guest 36.7%3:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%3:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%6:00 · Nathan 21.1% · guest 78.9%6:00 · Nathan 21.1% · guest 78.9%9:00 · Nathan 33.8% · guest 66.2%9:00 · Nathan 33.8% · guest 66.2%12:00 · Nathan 44.2% · guest 55.8%12:00 · Nathan 44.2% · guest 55.8%15:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%15:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%18:00 · Nathan 77.9% · guest 22.1%18:00 · Nathan 77.9% · guest 22.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 3:56 Dickel defends software necessity over basic Slack channels

Dickel firmly pushes back against Latka's premise that Slack emojis suffice for recognition by explaining it fails in large enterprises exceeding 1,000 employees.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:57 Latka drills on actual MRR and valuation disconnect

Latka sharply refuses to let Dickel gloss over the revenue discrepancy, directly stating the actual numbers are half of what was claimed.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:29 Dickel details agency partnership incentives

Dickel explains to Latka how giving change management consultants a 20% cut for two years turns them into a low-CAC, recurring distribution engine.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:05 Latka calculates implied 41.7x revenue multiple

Latka demonstrates sharp financial modeling on the fly, calculating the exact 41.7x multiple required for a $2.5M valuation at $60k ARR.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Executive Overview of Conveino's Corporate Spinoff and Metrics 6226 Latka challenges the core value proposition of the software, pressing Dickel on why companies wouldn't simply use a free Typeform survey or a standard Slack channel. Dickel defends the platform by clarifying that informal channels do not scale effectively in enterprise organizations with thousands of employees.
Pricing Model and Enterprise Contract Structure 5312 Latka explores the per-seat pricing model, customer contract values, and the corporate spinoff origins from Trumpf. The exchange is largely collaborative as Dickel details the t-shirt sizing rollout model and equity distribution.
Sales Strategy: Direct Outreach and Consultant Partnerships 6313 Dickel details customer acquisition methods, breaking down direct outreach and their 20% recurring revenue share model for agency partners. Latka probes into the conversion funnel between pilot trials and paying customer accounts.
Fundraising Strategy, Valuation Multiples, and Financial Reconciliation 8128 Latka catches a major discrepancy in revenue figures when Dickel cites $30k ARR rather than the previously agreed $60k ARR estimate. Latka presses aggressively on the reconciliation, pointing out the founder is asking for a steep 41.7x forward multiple.
R&D Capital Allocation, Engineering Contractors, and Headcount 7217 Latka drills down on R&D expenditure and expresses disbelief when learning the company spends $25k monthly on just 1.5 contracted engineering full-time equivalents. He pushes Dickel on why they have not internalized these hires given the lack of labor arbitrage.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Yannick Dickel 2000 Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, covering favorite business books, CEOs, tools, and personal background smoothly without friction.

Statements from this episode (10)

Insight
Ad-hoc Slack recognition channels break down beyond 100 employees
“You can do that for smaller for smaller teams, I'd say up to maybe a hundred people, but in larger organizations and that what we, that's what we target from say 100 to larger than 3005 thousand people. It's hard to get it going with such a Slack channel.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 4:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Conveino charges an average of $2 per user per month
“On average, they pay two US dollar per month per user.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 4:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Conveino's average deployment ranges from 500 to 1,000 seats
“Probably a bit more, more than like 500 to a thousand.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 5:48
Disclosure
TRUMPF holds a minority equity stake in Conveino
“Yeah, but only a minority stake in the company, right?”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 7:18
Disclosure
Conveino offers channel partners 20% revenue share for two years
“And they're getting up to 20% of revenue of the first two years.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 8:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Conveino has reached five paying enterprise customers
“Real paying customers. We've got five right now.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 9:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Conveino closed its first customer deal in December 2022
“Zero. Yes. We did our first yeah, deal in late December of last year.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 11:11
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Conveino predicts it will triple its $30,000 ARR by year-end
“I'm confident and we, that we can at least triple it by the end of the year.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 12:33
Disclosure
Conveino spends $25,000 per month on outsourced software development
“We're talking about 25 thousand per month for external development right now.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 15:19
Disclosure
Conveino is currently run entirely by its three co-founders
“Three, only the three founders.”
Yannick Dickel Oct 13, 2023 ▶ 16:41
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