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Jul 9, 2024 · 16m · top-founders

CPO Does $90m in Revenue, Reveals M4 Test He Ran To Increase NRR at Month 18

Ammon Curtis · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 28s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Ammon Curtis, Chief Product Officer at Keap, explains how shifting from pure self-serve product-led growth to structured, human-assisted, goal-oriented onboarding dramatically improved fourth-month retention and boosted Net Revenue Retention to 106 percent.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 3.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 0.0 Guest teaching 0.0 Guest disagreement 0.0 Nathan pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:000:05–3:39 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Nathan Latka Introduces SaaS Founder Interviews and GetLatka Database Nathan Latka delivers a brief intro/ad read for GetLatka, followed by Ammon Curtis beginning a conference presentation monologue about Keap's revenue growth and shifting target market.3:40–6:37 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Framework for Customer Sophistication and Problem Complexity Curtis continues his solo stage presentation, explaining the matrix of customer sophistication versus problem complexity.6:38–9:12 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Goal-Oriented Onboarding Experiment and Fourth-Month Retention Impact Curtis details a 705-customer onboarding experiment demonstrating how goal achievement increases fourth-month retention from 75% to 86%.9:13–11:18 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Cross-Functional Alignment and Software-Enabled Human Coaching Curtis presents the cross-functional alignment strategy spanning marketing assessments, sales onboarding expectations, and software-enabled coaching checklists.11:20–13:59 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Guaranteed Coaching Outcomes and Substantial NRR Growth Curtis explains Keap's outcome-guaranteed coaching model and shows how it drove net revenue retention from 41% up to 106%.14:00–16:16 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Snowboarding Analogy on Foundational Training and Customer Success Curtis concludes his presentation with an analogy comparing customer onboarding to professional snowboarding instruction, followed by applause and moderator closing remarks.0:05–3:39 · Guest teaching 0/10 Nathan Latka Introduces SaaS Founder Interviews and GetLatka Database Nathan Latka delivers a brief intro/ad read for GetLatka, followed by Ammon Curtis beginning a conference presentation monologue about Keap's revenue growth and shifting target market.3:40–6:37 · Guest teaching 0/10 Framework for Customer Sophistication and Problem Complexity Curtis continues his solo stage presentation, explaining the matrix of customer sophistication versus problem complexity.6:38–9:12 · Guest teaching 0/10 Goal-Oriented Onboarding Experiment and Fourth-Month Retention Impact Curtis details a 705-customer onboarding experiment demonstrating how goal achievement increases fourth-month retention from 75% to 86%.9:13–11:18 · Guest teaching 0/10 Cross-Functional Alignment and Software-Enabled Human Coaching Curtis presents the cross-functional alignment strategy spanning marketing assessments, sales onboarding expectations, and software-enabled coaching checklists.11:20–13:59 · Guest teaching 0/10 Guaranteed Coaching Outcomes and Substantial NRR Growth Curtis explains Keap's outcome-guaranteed coaching model and shows how it drove net revenue retention from 41% up to 106%.14:00–16:16 · Guest teaching 0/10 Snowboarding Analogy on Foundational Training and Customer Success Curtis concludes his presentation with an analogy comparing customer onboarding to professional snowboarding instruction, followed by applause and moderator closing remarks.0:05–3:39 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Nathan Latka Introduces SaaS Founder Interviews and GetLatka Database Nathan Latka delivers a brief intro/ad read for GetLatka, followed by Ammon Curtis beginning a conference presentation monologue about Keap's revenue growth and shifting target market.3:40–6:37 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Framework for Customer Sophistication and Problem Complexity Curtis continues his solo stage presentation, explaining the matrix of customer sophistication versus problem complexity.6:38–9:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Goal-Oriented Onboarding Experiment and Fourth-Month Retention Impact Curtis details a 705-customer onboarding experiment demonstrating how goal achievement increases fourth-month retention from 75% to 86%.9:13–11:18 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Cross-Functional Alignment and Software-Enabled Human Coaching Curtis presents the cross-functional alignment strategy spanning marketing assessments, sales onboarding expectations, and software-enabled coaching checklists.11:20–13:59 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Guaranteed Coaching Outcomes and Substantial NRR Growth Curtis explains Keap's outcome-guaranteed coaching model and shows how it drove net revenue retention from 41% up to 106%.14:00–16:16 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Snowboarding Analogy on Foundational Training and Customer Success Curtis concludes his presentation with an analogy comparing customer onboarding to professional snowboarding instruction, followed by applause and moderator closing remarks.0:05–3:39 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Nathan Latka Introduces SaaS Founder Interviews and GetLatka Database Nathan Latka delivers a brief intro/ad read for GetLatka, followed by Ammon Curtis beginning a conference presentation monologue about Keap's revenue growth and shifting target market.3:40–6:37 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Framework for Customer Sophistication and Problem Complexity Curtis continues his solo stage presentation, explaining the matrix of customer sophistication versus problem complexity.6:38–9:12 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Goal-Oriented Onboarding Experiment and Fourth-Month Retention Impact Curtis details a 705-customer onboarding experiment demonstrating how goal achievement increases fourth-month retention from 75% to 86%.9:13–11:18 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Cross-Functional Alignment and Software-Enabled Human Coaching Curtis presents the cross-functional alignment strategy spanning marketing assessments, sales onboarding expectations, and software-enabled coaching checklists.11:20–13:59 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Guaranteed Coaching Outcomes and Substantial NRR Growth Curtis explains Keap's outcome-guaranteed coaching model and shows how it drove net revenue retention from 41% up to 106%.14:00–16:16 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Snowboarding Analogy on Foundational Training and Customer Success Curtis concludes his presentation with an analogy comparing customer onboarding to professional snowboarding instruction, followed by applause and moderator closing remarks.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 17.8% · guest 82.2%0:00 · Nathan 17.8% · guest 82.2%3:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%3:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 0:42 Presentation introduction

The episode consists entirely of a solo conference presentation, resulting in no interpersonal combativeness or disagreement.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 0:04 Latka intro promo

No interview dialogue takes place, leaving zero host pushback across the recording.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:20 Curtis presents M4 retention data

Curtis shares empirical data showing how goal-oriented onboarding lifted fourth-month retention to 86% during his keynote presentation.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 0:04 Latka platform database pitch

Latka delivers his standard platform promo outlining SaaS metrics database filtering prior to the conference presentation.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Nathan Latka Introduces SaaS Founder Interviews and GetLatka Database 0000 Nathan Latka delivers a brief intro/ad read for GetLatka, followed by Ammon Curtis beginning a conference presentation monologue about Keap's revenue growth and shifting target market.
Framework for Customer Sophistication and Problem Complexity 0000 Curtis continues his solo stage presentation, explaining the matrix of customer sophistication versus problem complexity.
Goal-Oriented Onboarding Experiment and Fourth-Month Retention Impact 0000 Curtis details a 705-customer onboarding experiment demonstrating how goal achievement increases fourth-month retention from 75% to 86%.
Cross-Functional Alignment and Software-Enabled Human Coaching 0000 Curtis presents the cross-functional alignment strategy spanning marketing assessments, sales onboarding expectations, and software-enabled coaching checklists.
Guaranteed Coaching Outcomes and Substantial NRR Growth 0000 Curtis explains Keap's outcome-guaranteed coaching model and shows how it drove net revenue retention from 41% up to 106%.
Snowboarding Analogy on Foundational Training and Customer Success 0000 Curtis concludes his presentation with an analogy comparing customer onboarding to professional snowboarding instruction, followed by applause and moderator closing remarks.

Statements from this episode (7)

Disclosure
Curtis: Keap's move down-market expanded competitors 8.5x and stalled growth
“So we had originally focused on sales and marketing software for million dollar businesses, and we went down market and said, oh, there's a lot more downstream, let's go after that. So we shifted to a simple CRM for startups. Our competitor set increased expon…”
Ammon Curtis Jul 9, 2024 ▶ 2:00
Disclosure
Curtis: Keap's growth returned after reinstating paid onboarding and human support
“The return to growth really comes from us being able to redefine our strategy and our target, and then focus on usage and paid onboarding to be able to restore the human connection, and then our focus now is on what we call business automation.”
Ammon Curtis Jul 9, 2024 ▶ 3:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Curtis: Keap Tested Goal-Driven Onboarding Across 705 Customers Over 6 Months
“And over a six month period, we took 705 customers, And took them through a different type of onboarding, where in the past, we would have customers come in and we'd basically say, ok, Here's how you get set up, and then if they needed something, they would as…”
Ammon Curtis Jul 9, 2024 ▶ 7:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Curtis: Keap Had a Blended Baseline M4 Retention Rate of About 75%
“So these were customers that either worked with partners and were able to get onboarded or coached or assisted, and then Any of our customers that came in through free trial and different things along those lines, we had a blended average of about 75%.”
Ammon Curtis Jul 9, 2024 ▶ 8:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Curtis: Keap's Goal-Reaching Onboarding Cohort Hit 86% Month 4 Retention
“But on the flip side, the ones that achieved the goal, we saw a big uptick in them actually staying, staying on, and our M-IV went up to 86%.”
Ammon Curtis Jul 9, 2024 ▶ 8:49
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Curtis: Keap DIY customers had 41% net revenue retention
“Well, if we break it down for those customers that came in and kind of went through the guided do-it-yourself or the do-it-yourself, we were seeing a 41% net revenue retention.”
Ammon Curtis Jul 9, 2024 ▶ 12:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Curtis: Keap increased NRR from 41% to 106% with assisted coaching
“When we look at our business and complement this with other initiatives, what we see is the 41% like we talked about, 52% the done with you, the done for you at 74%, and if you couple just the coaching, completing coaching with the other initiatives that we've…”
Ammon Curtis Jul 9, 2024 ▶ 13:28
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