Mar 3, 2025 · 35m · the-pitch
#62 Pivot or Die
Ben Walters · 14m spoken Josh Muccio · 6m spoken Michael Hyatt · 4m spoken Phil Nadel · 1m spoken Sarah Downey · 1m spoken Jillian Manus · 1m spoken Charles Hudson · 37s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Ben Walters pitches his startup, Feedback, on The Pitch, seeking an $800,000 investment to pivot from a consumer food-waste app to an enterprise dynamic pricing SaaS platform. Although he initially secures commitments from four out of five venture investors, post-pitch due diligence roadblocks test the founder's resilience as he seeks alternative growth avenues.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 23.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 4.9 Guest teaching 3.4 Guest disagreement 1.7 Josh pushing back 3.7
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 27:54 Rejecting the drawing board framing
Ben directly rejects Michael's assessment that the company must go back to the drawing board, insisting they are strategically expanding into new verticals rather than failing.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 28:54 Josh calls new verticals a brand new pivotJosh directly challenges Ben's framing, blunt about the reality that shifting to e-commerce is essentially a whole new business pivot.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:10 Breaking down restaurant profit marginsBen schools the investors on thin restaurant margins, showing that a modest three percent price bump translates directly into doubling the bottom-line profit.
Josh holds their own ▶ 14:50 Michael insists founder cannot sell aloneMichael leverages his deep enterprise SaaS experience to push back on Ben's assumption that he can handle enterprise sales solo without dedicated leadership.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pitching Dynamic Pricing for Restaurants | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Ben opens his pitch by contrasting dynamic pricing in airlines with static pricing in restaurants using Charles's regular salad order as a practical example. The investors listen attentively with minimal interruption. | |
| Marketplace Traction and Announcing the Strategic Pivot | 5 | 5 | 2 | 4 | Investors probe the enterprise model, white label integration, and margins. Phil challenges the ninety-nine dollar monthly SaaS price point as too low, while Ben educates the room on how a thirty-cent price increase doubles a restaurant's net profit margin. | |
| Scaling the Technology and Consumer Psychology | 5 | 5 | 2 | 4 | Michael and Jillian question technical execution across restaurant chains and potential consumer alienation from fluctuating prices. Ben reframes consumer perception, explaining that frequent price updates gamify the app and boost engagement. | |
| Fundraise Terms, Sales Leadership, and Sunk Cost Vulnerability | 5 | 4 | 2 | 5 | Michael presses Ben on whether he can manage enterprise sales without dedicated leadership. Sarah asks what keeps him up at night, prompting a remarkably transparent answer from Ben about overcoming sunk costs and team restructuring. | |
| Investor Decisions and Capital Commitments | 5 | 1 | 0 | 3 | The investors make their offers, with Sarah, Phil, Michael, and Jillian committing capital while Charles holds off over concerns about founder-led sales capacity. Ben accepts feedback graciously. | |
| The Investors' Post-Pitch Deliberation | 5 | 2 | 1 | 3 | The investors discuss acquisition potential before Josh follows up five months later. Ben details how the key partnership stalled, causing Phil, Charles, and Jillian to drop out while Michael paused his investment. | |
| Exploring New Verticals, Founder Fuel, and Future Outlook | 6 | 4 | 4 | 6 | Josh pushes back on Ben's plan to explore other verticals like e-commerce, calling it an entirely new pivot. Ben defends his stance, arguing that long sales cycles require adaptive revenue generation while keeping his long-term restaurant vision intact. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Restaurants use static pricing because offline menus limit price changes
“They've never had the opportunity to really change prices like some of these other industries because transactions happen in an offline environment.”
Feedback pitches $800,000 to pivot its dynamic pricing tech to restaurants
“So my name is Ben Walters, CEO and co-founder of Feedback, and we're here raising 800,000 dollars in order to repurpose the pricing technology that we have both developed and tested through a mobile marketplace in order to allow restaurateurs to apply it to th…”
Feedback generates $350,000 in off-peak sales over 13 months
“What we've done over the last 13 months is we've have, we have a mobile marketplace. We've generated 350,000 dollars in off-peak sales and sold 22,000 meals that were gonna end up in landfill, and we've done that by changing the price based on demand and inven…”
Feedback charges $99 per month for restaurant pricing SaaS
“And we're charging for this SaaS product right now 99 dollars a month.”
Feedback forecasts $65K MRR within 12 months
“65,000 dollars is what I've modeled out for our forecasting. In 12 months from now, yes.”
Ben Walters: Dynamic pricing will inevitably become standard in restaurants
“Prices are going to be changing at restaurants. I'm like, I'm convinced, and I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of smart people, and everyone is also with me that the way that the pricing is working right now, it just doesn't make sense.”
Ben Walters says frequent price changes increase app engagement without hurting conversion
“What's been so cool is, so what we've seen is in our app, the more times we actually change prices, the more people check into the app to see what prices are. And so it actually increases engagement, and we see conversion rates stay pretty flat, and so when yo…”
Feedback is raising an $800k convertible note at a $4M cap
“So, so 800 K US, it's a four million dollar cap. It's going to be a convertible note. 20% discount.”
Feedback's consumer app has 35,000 quarterly active users
“We've got 35,000 people that use this app on a quarterly basis.”
Phil Nadel says most startups pivot too late out of desperation
“Most companies do it too late in the game when they're really desperate, and things are really failing, and they're like, out of money and everything else, then they're like, all right, let's pivot.”
Sarah Downey offers a $25,000 angel investment in Feedback
“I would like to put 25 K in, personally, as an angel, and then continue to stay in touch, and when you do these classic seed, I think accomplice could be a good partner for you.”
Michael Hyatt offers to invest $50,000 in Feedback
“So for all those reasons, I'd like to invest. 50,000.”
Phil Nadel offers up to $250k for his syndicate in Feedback
“So either I'll invest 25 or 50,000 as an angel today, or I'd like 200 or two 50 to share with my syndicate.”
Jillian Manus offers to invest $100,000 in Feedback
“So, with that, I would like to invest a 100,000, and I know that you're gonna make this huge.”
Michael Hyatt says dynamic pricing in restaurants is inevitable
“Dynamic pricing is happening. I just don't know how it's going to happen.”
Michael Hyatt discloses he is an investor in food app Ritual
“And I'm going to throw it out there because I'm an investor in this company, do you think Ritual, do you think a Ritual or somebody would acquire these guys?”
Michael Hyatt rescinds his offer because Feedback isn't working yet
“It sounds like what he's doing isn't working yet. That's fundamentally why I haven't invested.”
Feedback joins Founder Fuel accelerator with a $120,000 investment
“So we actually accepted entrance into a prestigious accelerator called Founder Fuel based in, in Canada. It's run by Real Ventures, which is one of the bigger or best venture capital firms here in Canada... So they make a 120 K investment.”