Mar 4, 2025 · 30m · the-pitch
#123 Outlines: A Venture-Backed Shower Curtain?
Luke Barkley Young · 10m spoken Josh Muccio · 6m spoken Sarah Cohn · 2m spoken Beck Bamberger · 2m spoken Howie Diamond · 1m spoken Al Bsharah · 1m spoken Jillian Manus · 57s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Founder Luke Barkley Young pitches Outlines, a circular subscription startup for recyclable shower curtains, overcoming investor skepticism regarding direct-to-consumer economics to secure $100,000 in combined venture capital and fund commitments.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 26.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 1.7 Guest disagreement 2.3 Josh pushing back 1.5
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 23:32 Sarah Cohn slams the B2B SaaS pivot suggestion
Sarah forcefully derides the advice given by the panel VCs, calling it the worst idea she has ever heard and dismantling why recycling logistics offers terrible margins.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 15:34 Josh challenges the ceiling of a shower curtain companyJosh directly presses Beck right after the pitch to justify how a simple subscription shower curtain can realistically turn into a venture-scale business.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:31 Luke educates the panel on toxic PFAs and microplasticsLuke decisively refutes Al's premise that fabric curtains are eco-friendly by explaining the chemistry of durable water repellents and forever chemicals.
Josh holds their own ▶ 27:15 Josh structures the syndicate investment allocationJosh demonstrates his fund manager command by securing a $50k fund allocation and structuring an expanded $150k allocation for listener syndication on favorable terms.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Luke Barkley Young's Pitch for Outlines | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | Host Josh Muccio is not in the room during the pitch. Luke calmly presents Outlines' circular subscription model and unit economics to the panel of venture investors. | |
| The Plastic vs. Fabric Debate and DTC Strategy | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | Luke counters investor Al Bsharah's suggestion of washable cloth curtains by citing data on PFAs, carcinogens, and microplastics. The host is not involved in this discussion. | |
| Investor Feedback and Investment Decision | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | Investors decline one by one due to pricing and complexity concerns before Beck Bamberger commits $50k on PR synergy. The host is not present in the pitch room. | |
| Investor Post-Pitch Debrief | 3 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Josh debriefs the pitch with Beck and Howie, pressing on how a shower curtain can genuinely scale into a massive enterprise. Howie pushes back skeptically on the 5,000-unit traction. | |
| Due Diligence and Lead Investor Sarah Cohn's Thesis | 4 | 6 | 5 | 3 | Josh interviews lead investor Sarah Cohn, who passionately explains applying SaaS replenishment metrics to CPG and aggressively dismisses the other VCs' idea of pivoting into B2B logistics. | |
| Pitch Fund Syndication and Show Conclusion | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Josh interviews Luke directly about his broader replenishment platform vision and negotiates a $50k Pitch Fund check along with a $150k listener syndicate. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Luke Barkley Young: Only 6% of recyclables in US bins are recycled
“And many people know that recyclables in America, of everything we put into our recycling bins, only around six percent of them are actually recycled.”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines has a 75% point-of-purchase subscription rate
“75% of our users subscribe to recurring deliveries at the point of purchase. That's five times an industry standard.”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines is raising $1M to launch five new products
“We're now raising a million dollars to launch five new products This year to grow our systems and plans with our existing users, but to also acquire new users.”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines pays roughly $1 per item to recycle
“So right now we're paying roughly a dollar per item to have it recycled.”
Luke Barkley Young: Material value offsets shipping at 10,000 pounds volume
“However, once we get to a quantity of shipments of 10,000 pounds and above, we'll probably start to get paid enough for that material that will offset just shipping it to the recycler.”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines has 3,500 subscribers and 5,000 units sold
“Right now we have three and a half thousand subscribers and we've sold 5000 units.”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines has an 88% product return recycling rate
“So our trailing full participation in responsible replenishment, we call that, is 88%.”
Luke Barkley Young: Fabric shower liners release carcinogenic PFAS in showers
“The material you're talking about it isn't, it's not cloth. It's a polyester. It's covered in what's called a DWR, durable water resistant, which is made of a PFA, which is a highly carcinogenic forever chemical. And when you stand next to it in the shower, th…”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines CAC dropped post-iOS update and remains profitable
“Post the iOS update, our CAC actually reduced, and it's continued to stay stable this year. So we're still first purchase profitable.”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines paid search CAC is currently under $17
“I think our CAC on paid search right now is under 17 dollars, which is great.”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines is ranked #1 shower liner on Wirecutter
“So we're the number one shower liner across like strategist or wire cutter.”
Howie Diamond: Outlines won't achieve mainstream adoption due to high prices
“I don't see the mainstream adoption for this product because the price is way too high and way too premium for me to
To get involved in this because I just think it's going to be a very, very small select people who care about the environmental impacts to get …”
Luke Barkley Young: Outlines aims to be the Whole Foods for replenishables
“I think Outlines should be like the destination for replenishable. It's a bit like the way Whole Foods was the destination for
Believable organic produce.”
Jillian Manus: Outlines is overly complicated across manufacturing, recovery, and recycling
“I think that this is overly complicated. You are designing, you're manufacturing, you're recovering, you're replenishing, you're recycling. It's a lot. And I would love to see you focus on one thing, or even build almost a SaaS product that's logistics for rep…”
Beck Bamberger wired $50,000 to Outlines without negotiating original terms
“So I already wired the money today.”
Sarah Cohn: Social Impact Capital targets $10 billion portfolio business outcomes
“We require ten billion dollar businesses.”
Sarah Cohn: B2B retail replenishment services are low-margin and uncompelling
“Taking the smallest, lowest value, lowest margin component of that full stack business, which is the recycling, and making a whole business out of that is like, that's not compelling at all.”