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Aug 21, 2024 · 23m · the-pitch

Stanford Engineer: Gecko-Inspired Space Velcro

Capella Kerst · 6m spoken Josh Muccio · 3m spoken Mac Conwell · 3m spoken Cyan Banister · 2m spoken Jesse Middleton · 1m spoken Charles Hudson · 34s spoken
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Stanford PhD graduate Capella Kerst pitches Gecko Materials, a biomimicry dry-adhesive technology company, demonstrating high-strength, reusable adhesion across aerospace, defense, and industrial applications. While the investor panel expresses stage and valuation constraints regarding the $8 million round, they praise the breakthrough manufacturing process and validate its multi-industry platform potential.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 19.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Josh as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 5.2 Guest disagreement 1.5 Josh pushing back 2.3
05100:0010:0020:001:17–5:31 · Josh as informed peer 3/10 Capella Kerst's Pitch and Dry Adhesive Demonstration Capella delivers a crisp demonstration and explains the microstructure physics and Stanford patent licensing behind Gecko Materials. The investors are fascinated, asking basic clarifying questions about laboratory IP transfer.5:32–9:04 · Josh as informed peer 4/10 Funding History, Manufacturing, and Unit Economics Capella details unit economics, manufacturing speed, and how the material operates under water or vacuum environments. The investors explore commercial viability and pricing compared to consumer adhesives.9:05–12:01 · Josh as informed peer 5/10 Capital Allocation and Initial Investor Responses Capella outlines the deployment of the eight million dollar round and path to eighty million ARR based on LOIs. The investors love the technology but decline direct lead investment due to sector and stage mismatch.12:01–15:42 · Josh as informed peer 6/10 Mac Conwell Analyzes Government-Backed Tech Transfer Mac Conwell challenges the implied high valuation based on pre-seed history while praising government tech-transfer potential. Capella firmly counters that no set valuation has been determined yet.15:50–19:29 · Josh as informed peer 6/10 Post-Pitch Investor Deliberations and Market Potential In post-pitch deliberations, the investors and Josh analyze the business model, comparing the company's trajectory to historical lab-to-government commercial giants.19:35–21:25 · Josh as informed peer 5/10 Post-Show Deal Dynamics and Season Finale Announcement Josh presses Capella on pricing the round and attracting a lead investor, while Capella insists on letting the market decide through submitted term sheets.1:17–5:31 · Guest teaching 8/10 Capella Kerst's Pitch and Dry Adhesive Demonstration Capella delivers a crisp demonstration and explains the microstructure physics and Stanford patent licensing behind Gecko Materials. The investors are fascinated, asking basic clarifying questions about laboratory IP transfer.5:32–9:04 · Guest teaching 7/10 Funding History, Manufacturing, and Unit Economics Capella details unit economics, manufacturing speed, and how the material operates under water or vacuum environments. The investors explore commercial viability and pricing compared to consumer adhesives.9:05–12:01 · Guest teaching 6/10 Capital Allocation and Initial Investor Responses Capella outlines the deployment of the eight million dollar round and path to eighty million ARR based on LOIs. The investors love the technology but decline direct lead investment due to sector and stage mismatch.12:01–15:42 · Guest teaching 5/10 Mac Conwell Analyzes Government-Backed Tech Transfer Mac Conwell challenges the implied high valuation based on pre-seed history while praising government tech-transfer potential. Capella firmly counters that no set valuation has been determined yet.15:50–19:29 · Guest teaching 2/10 Post-Pitch Investor Deliberations and Market Potential In post-pitch deliberations, the investors and Josh analyze the business model, comparing the company's trajectory to historical lab-to-government commercial giants.19:35–21:25 · Guest teaching 3/10 Post-Show Deal Dynamics and Season Finale Announcement Josh presses Capella on pricing the round and attracting a lead investor, while Capella insists on letting the market decide through submitted term sheets.1:17–5:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Capella Kerst's Pitch and Dry Adhesive Demonstration Capella delivers a crisp demonstration and explains the microstructure physics and Stanford patent licensing behind Gecko Materials. The investors are fascinated, asking basic clarifying questions about laboratory IP transfer.5:32–9:04 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Funding History, Manufacturing, and Unit Economics Capella details unit economics, manufacturing speed, and how the material operates under water or vacuum environments. The investors explore commercial viability and pricing compared to consumer adhesives.9:05–12:01 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Capital Allocation and Initial Investor Responses Capella outlines the deployment of the eight million dollar round and path to eighty million ARR based on LOIs. The investors love the technology but decline direct lead investment due to sector and stage mismatch.12:01–15:42 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Mac Conwell Analyzes Government-Backed Tech Transfer Mac Conwell challenges the implied high valuation based on pre-seed history while praising government tech-transfer potential. Capella firmly counters that no set valuation has been determined yet.15:50–19:29 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Post-Pitch Investor Deliberations and Market Potential In post-pitch deliberations, the investors and Josh analyze the business model, comparing the company's trajectory to historical lab-to-government commercial giants.19:35–21:25 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Post-Show Deal Dynamics and Season Finale Announcement Josh presses Capella on pricing the round and attracting a lead investor, while Capella insists on letting the market decide through submitted term sheets.1:17–5:31 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Capella Kerst's Pitch and Dry Adhesive Demonstration Capella delivers a crisp demonstration and explains the microstructure physics and Stanford patent licensing behind Gecko Materials. The investors are fascinated, asking basic clarifying questions about laboratory IP transfer.5:32–9:04 · Josh pushing back 2/10 Funding History, Manufacturing, and Unit Economics Capella details unit economics, manufacturing speed, and how the material operates under water or vacuum environments. The investors explore commercial viability and pricing compared to consumer adhesives.9:05–12:01 · Josh pushing back 2/10 Capital Allocation and Initial Investor Responses Capella outlines the deployment of the eight million dollar round and path to eighty million ARR based on LOIs. The investors love the technology but decline direct lead investment due to sector and stage mismatch.12:01–15:42 · Josh pushing back 4/10 Mac Conwell Analyzes Government-Backed Tech Transfer Mac Conwell challenges the implied high valuation based on pre-seed history while praising government tech-transfer potential. Capella firmly counters that no set valuation has been determined yet.15:50–19:29 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Post-Pitch Investor Deliberations and Market Potential In post-pitch deliberations, the investors and Josh analyze the business model, comparing the company's trajectory to historical lab-to-government commercial giants.19:35–21:25 · Josh pushing back 4/10 Post-Show Deal Dynamics and Season Finale Announcement Josh presses Capella on pricing the round and attracting a lead investor, while Capella insists on letting the market decide through submitted term sheets.

speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Josh 35.9% · guest 64.1%0:00 · Josh 35.9% · guest 64.1%3:00 · Josh 0% · guest 100%3:00 · Josh 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Josh 1.7% · guest 98.3%6:00 · Josh 1.7% · guest 98.3%9:00 · Josh 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Josh 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Josh 1% · guest 99%12:00 · Josh 1% · guest 99%15:00 · Josh 13% · guest 87%15:00 · Josh 13% · guest 87%18:00 · Josh 49.4% · guest 50.6%18:00 · Josh 49.4% · guest 50.6%21:00 · Josh 73% · guest 27%21:00 · Josh 73% · guest 27%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:28 Capella rejects Mac's high valuation framing

Capella immediately interrupts and reframes Mac's assertion that her valuation is overly steep by clarifying that the round currently has no fixed valuation set.

 Hardest push from Josh ▶ 20:31 Josh probes implied valuation expectations

Josh challenges Capella's claim that there is no price set, arguing that seeking an eight million dollar round inherently implies an ambitious valuation.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:00 Capella details breakthrough in manufacturing speed

Capella educates the room on the historic bottleneck of biomimicry adhesives taking 48 hours to make one unit, contrasting it with her patented method that takes under 15 minutes.

 Josh holds their own ▶ 12:01 Mac evaluates tech transfer risks and commercial validation

Mac draws on deep personal experience in state-level tech transfer to explain why academic inventions typically fail to commercialize without existing government contracts.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicJosh as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementJosh pushing backWhy
Capella Kerst's Pitch and Dry Adhesive Demonstration 3811 Capella delivers a crisp demonstration and explains the microstructure physics and Stanford patent licensing behind Gecko Materials. The investors are fascinated, asking basic clarifying questions about laboratory IP transfer.
Funding History, Manufacturing, and Unit Economics 4722 Capella details unit economics, manufacturing speed, and how the material operates under water or vacuum environments. The investors explore commercial viability and pricing compared to consumer adhesives.
Capital Allocation and Initial Investor Responses 5612 Capella outlines the deployment of the eight million dollar round and path to eighty million ARR based on LOIs. The investors love the technology but decline direct lead investment due to sector and stage mismatch.
Mac Conwell Analyzes Government-Backed Tech Transfer 6534 Mac Conwell challenges the implied high valuation based on pre-seed history while praising government tech-transfer potential. Capella firmly counters that no set valuation has been determined yet.
Post-Pitch Investor Deliberations and Market Potential 6201 In post-pitch deliberations, the investors and Josh analyze the business model, comparing the company's trajectory to historical lab-to-government commercial giants.
Post-Show Deal Dynamics and Season Finale Announcement 5324 Josh presses Capella on pricing the round and attracting a lead investor, while Capella insists on letting the market decide through submitted term sheets.

Statements from this episode (15)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kerst: Gecko Materials counts Honda, Ford, Toyota, GE, Intel, and Hyundai as customers
“Honda, Ford, Toyota, GE, Intel, Hyundai are just to name a few of our seven of our customers here on Earth.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 2:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kerst: Gecko Materials did $727k in 2023 revenue and is on track to double it in 2024
“We did 727,000 in revenue last year in 23, and we're on track to doubling it this year.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 2:44
Disclosure
Kerst: Gecko Materials is raising $8M with strategic follow-on capital secured
“We're currently raising an eight million round. We are searching for a lead investor, minimum check size, one million. We have enough follow on from CVCs and other strategics to complete the round.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 2:52
Disclosure
Kerst: Gecko Materials pays Stanford 1% equity and 2.5% royalties
“So the GECO materials is one percent equity, 2.5% royalties.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 5:09
Assertion Partly supported
Kerst: Gecko Materials cut adhesive production time from 48 hours to 15 minutes
“It would take over 48 hours to make one unit. Because of the invention and my patent, we can make it in under 15 minutes.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 5:24
Disclosure
Kerst: Gecko Materials raised $2M pre-seed at $26M cap plus $775k grants
“We did a two million pre-seed in twenty-twenty-one with a cap of twenty-six million. And then we did 775,000 in non-dilutive grants.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 5:43
Assertion Partly supported
Kerst: Gecko Materials is on the ISS and under paid Space Force contract
“We've completed two Air Force and Space Force contracts, and we are on the International Space Station, and we're actually in now a standalone, it's not a grant, it's actually a contract in which they're paying with the Space Force right now.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 5:57
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kerst: Gecko Materials will reach 88% profit margins within two years
“In the next two years, we'll be at 88% profit margins.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 6:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kerst: Gecko Materials is currently 10x the price of Command Strips by area
“Well, actually right now it is only 10 times more expensive than command strips if you're doing area per string.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 8:09
Assertion Contradicted
Kerst: Gecko Materials is working with the US Navy on underwater gripping
“So there is applications that we're working with the Navy in that sense, in which you are going to have a gripper that's obviously not on string.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 8:42
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kerst: Gecko Materials will reach $80M ARR within five years
“So we are two X-ing our revenue this year, 3.8 X-ing the following year. And then end of five years, we will be ARR of eighty million. And that is based solely upon our current paying customers only and their LOIs that are located in the data room.”
Capella Kerst Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 9:53
Insight
Conwell: Government contracts are a proven playbook for lab spinouts
“We have seen massive companies build, come out of labs, start in government, and then over time transition, and the technologies that come from government are usually very transformative and usually really big companies.”
Mac Conwell Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 12:45
Opinion
Banister: Gecko Materials' valuation is fair for its business type
“By the way, your valuation is fine for what the type of business you are. It's, we're more commenting on the types of businesses we see. And they're, it's not about you. It's just, we do software mostly. Is really what it comes down to. But you could be a Spac…”
Cyan Banister Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 14:36
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Conwell: Gecko Materials could be a multi-billion-dollar government business
“I mean, this is, this could be a billion, this would be a multi-billion dollar company just working with the government.”
Mac Conwell Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 17:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Muccio: Gecko Materials' round is overcommitted but lacks a lead investor
“After the show, we found out from Capella that her round is actually overcommitted, and yet she hasn't been able to raise a dime of it because she's waiting on a lead investor to step up and price the round.”
Josh Muccio Aug 21, 2024 ▶ 20:03
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