Sep 25, 2024 · 30m · the-pitch
Can Generative AI Transform Education? Immersion Ed's Bold Pitch
Chad Wilson · 11m spoken Elizabeth Yin · 4m spoken Josh Muccio · 3m spoken Cyan Banister · 2m spoken Jesse Middleton · 1m spoken Charles Hudson · 1m spoken Mac Conwell · 1m spoken Game Character · 12s spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Former history teacher Chad Wilson pitches Immersion Ed on The Pitch, seeking $1.5 million for his startup that replaces conventional history textbooks with interactive video games. While investors praise Wilson's charismatic presentation and educational vision, concerns over game production costs, low contract values, and school sales bureaucracy result in all venture capitalists passing on the deal.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 12.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 3.9 Guest disagreement 1.3 Josh pushing back 4.1
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:45 Chad Wilson's direct rebuttal to Charles Hudson
Chad explicitly pushes back on Charles's rationale for passing, arguing that the $1,500 ACV assumption only applies to an introductory fall promo and jumps to $3,000 the following year.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 12:57 Elizabeth Yin confronts Chad on unrealistic production timelinesElizabeth refuses Chad's premise that his team can cover all of world and US history in two years when their current production velocity is one episode every six weeks.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:07 Chad Wilson explains modern history pedagogy and textbook abandonmentChad educates the investors on classroom reality by sharing that 40% of history teachers no longer use textbooks, reframing the conversation from rote factual memorization to perspective analysis.
Josh holds their own ▶ 24:35 Elizabeth Yin breaks down historical EdTech economicsElizabeth demonstrates deep domain knowledge by detailing how 1990s titles like Oregon Trail succeeded via direct classroom purchasing power, proving why modern EdTech unit economics are structurally disadvantaged.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Chad Wilson Pitches Immersion Ed and Funding Ask | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Chad delivers his uninterrupted initial pitch detailing his background, the genesis of Immersion Ed, and their $1.5M fundraise ask. The investors listen supportively without interrupting or challenging. | |
| Colonial Boston Game Demo and Core Gameplay Mechanics | 4 | 6 | 1 | 3 | Mac Conwell asks sharp questions regarding game development tech and curriculum versus historical accuracy. Chad educates the panel on modern history pedagogy, explaining why 40% of history teachers avoid textbooks in favor of perspective analysis. | |
| Production Economics and Discretionary School Budgets | 5 | 5 | 1 | 4 | Charles and Jesse query production unit economics and sales cycles. Chad competently details their $40k per episode cost and how targeting discretionary school-level budgets avoids sluggish district approvals. | |
| Long-Term Vision and Gilder Lehrman Distribution Partnership | 6 | 5 | 1 | 5 | Jesse and Mac drill down into long-term expansion plans and conversion mechanics from the Gilder Lehrman partnership. Chad lays out specific pipeline projections and future workforce development goals. | |
| Debating Production Velocity and Educational Metrics | 8 | 6 | 3 | 8 | Elizabeth Yin delivers strong, skeptical pushback on Chad's timeline math for digitizing all history and argues school incentives revolve around math and reading scores. Chad counters by highlighting growing state soft skill mandates and AP enrollment. | |
| Investor Passes: Contract Values and Digital Revisionism | 7 | 4 | 4 | 7 | Charles Hudson passes due to low ACV dependency on single-vector partnerships, prompting a respectful rebuttal from Chad on contract escalation. Cyan Bannister passes due to broader philosophical concerns regarding institutional schooling and digital revisionism. | |
| Historical Integrity Debate and Jesse Middleton's Pass | 7 | 5 | 2 | 6 | The panel discusses digital censorship and blockchain immutability before Jesse Middleton passes, reinforcing Charles's point about the difficulty of selling low ACV software directly to schools. | |
| Elizabeth Yin Passes and Chad Wilson Exits the Room | 8 | 3 | 1 | 7 | Elizabeth Yin passes while delivering an insightful historical analysis of how 1990s EdTech economics differed from modern high-overhead software production. Chad accepts the feedback graciously before departing. | |
| Investors and Host Debrief the Immersion Ed Pitch | 4 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Host Josh Muccio and the investors debrief on Chad's impressive pitch execution and the nuances of EdTech investing, followed by post-show traction updates. | |
| Next Week's Pitch Teaser: Efficient Brewing Technology | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Short promotional teaser for next week's pitch on efficient brewing technology. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Wilson: 94% of surveyed schools want Immersion Ed's games
“Since launching, we've surveyed thousands of schools and found that 94% want to use our games.”
Wilson: Pilot students found Immersion Ed 40% more engaging than coursework
“From that group, we selected 50 for our pilot program this past school year, and participating students showed that they viewed our games as 40% more engaging than their traditional coursework.”
Wilson: Immersion Ed launched to 35,000 schools via affiliate partner
“Best of all though, yesterday, we launched to a network of 35,000 schools through our affiliate.”
Wilson: Immersion Ed will hit $4.5M ARR by end of 2025
“So, we're raising a 1.5 million dollar pre-seed round to reach 4.5 million in annualized recurring revenue by the end of 2025.”
Chad Wilson: Bungie founder Alex Seropian is Immersion Ed's lead advisor
“Our whole process is guided by our lead advisor, Alex Seropian. So he's the founder of Bungie, creator of Halo. He's one of the most acclaimed game developers ever.”
Chad Wilson: 40% of history teachers don't use textbooks at all
“40% of history teachers don't use a textbook at all across all grades.”
Chad Wilson: Immersion Ed costs $40k and six weeks per 20-minute episode
“So right now it takes around a month and a half to build an episode currently. And so that translates to around 40,000 dollars per 20 minute episode.”
Chad Wilson: Building-level school discretionary sales close within a week
“Right now, the money's coming from discretionary budget that is school building level. And so these processes are much faster than the traditional school sales cycle. They're frequently done within a week.”
Wilson: Immersion Ed expects 800 paying schools and $500K revenue by fall
“So we believe 800 will be paying customers by the end of the fall. So this is 500,000 dollars in revenue.”
Hudson: $1,500 ACV is too low for direct EdTech sales reps
“And at 1500 dollars today, I don't think you can actually deploy your own salespeople to go after individual schools because the ACV per school is too low.”
Wilson: Immersion Ed's ACV will double from $1,500 to $3,000
“If I'm allowed to give a slight rebuttal, I'd say that 1500 is literally what we're expecting this fall, when they are only purchasing episodes two and three. So by the time they're actually signing on for next year, the ACV is already 3000 dollars.”
Banister: The US education system should be destroyed, not revolutionized
“I'm going to pass as well, but mine is more dogmatic. I really do not like the education system in America, and maybe this is terrible of me, but I really would love for it to be destroyed, and I'm more on the side of revolutionizing our education system.”
Middleton: Codecademy pivoted to consumers because selling to schools is hard
“Of all the ed tech stuff that we've invested in, you know, Codecademy was one of the larger ones and tried selling in education. It was mostly to consumer, but selling into educational systems is just so hard.”
Yin: EdTech game economics fail due to creation and sales resource costs
“The issue is not the sales cycle. The issue is the resources required to make something, and the resources required to sell something, those numbers don't work well today.”
Yin: EdTech was more lucrative in the 1990s when teachers controlled budgets
“One of the things that a lot of people don't realize about EdTech is it used to be a lot more lucrative in the nineties. When we think about games like Oregon Trail, Reader Rabbit, and all of those the way sales cycles happened back then was different. They di…”