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May 2, 2022 · 25m · startup-acquisition-stories

Startup Acquisition Stories with Conor Chamness - Corporate Development | M&A at Dura Software

Conor Jamnis · 17m spoken Andrew Gazdecki · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of SaaS Acquisition Stories, host Andrew Gazdecki interviews Conor Chamness of Dura Software to discuss their permanent capital acquisition model, the value of hyper-niche enterprise software, and essential advice for founders preparing to sell their business.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Andrew holds 17.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Andrew as informed peer 2.7 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 0.0 Andrew pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:0020:001:03–4:03 · Andrew as informed peer 2/10 Overview of Dura Software's Acquisition Strategy Gazdecki opens with an open-ended introductory prompt asking about Dura Software's background and acquisition track record. Jamnis gives an educational overview explaining how permanent capital software aggregators operate and create value for niche software businesses.4:04–7:13 · Andrew as informed peer 2/10 Dura's Track Record and Hyper-Niche Focus Gazdecki asks Jamnis to outline his dream target profile, prompting Jamnis to detail financial benchmarks like low-to-moderate growth, high retention, and clear operational upside.7:13–10:55 · Andrew as informed peer 3/10 Hypothetical Target: Trophy Engraving ERP & Sales Models Gazdecki challenges Jamnis with a hypothetical curveball scenario, leading Jamnis to create an example around trophy engraving ERP software and explain why direct sales or channel strategies suit niche B2B software better than marketing-heavy self-serve.10:56–14:46 · Andrew as informed peer 4/10 Essential Advice for First-Time Founders Selling Their Business Jamnis delivers detailed advice on financial transparency and warned against valuation comparisons with external market anomalies. Gazdecki validates this by sharing his own marketplace experience where founders cite 100x competitor valuations.14:46–17:18 · Andrew as informed peer 3/10 Highlight Acquisitions: SixConnex and Legacy Faxing Jamnis shares case studies on SixConnex and legacy fax software. Gazdecki notes the role of market timing from a TED talk perspective, while Jamnis elaborates on operational scaling post-acquisition.17:18–21:03 · Andrew as informed peer 3/10 M&A Market Trends and Evaluating Buyer Intentions Gazdecki asks for market predictions, prompting Jamnis to give a thoughtful breakdown of private equity market froth, unsustainable underwriting promises, and financial engineering risks.21:03–24:06 · Andrew as informed peer 2/10 Conor Chamness's Favorite Books Gazdecki closes with rapid-fire lifestyle questions regarding favorite books and entrepreneurial role models. The tone is casual and warm throughout.1:03–4:03 · Guest teaching 4/10 Overview of Dura Software's Acquisition Strategy Gazdecki opens with an open-ended introductory prompt asking about Dura Software's background and acquisition track record. Jamnis gives an educational overview explaining how permanent capital software aggregators operate and create value for niche software businesses.4:04–7:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Dura's Track Record and Hyper-Niche Focus Gazdecki asks Jamnis to outline his dream target profile, prompting Jamnis to detail financial benchmarks like low-to-moderate growth, high retention, and clear operational upside.7:13–10:55 · Guest teaching 4/10 Hypothetical Target: Trophy Engraving ERP & Sales Models Gazdecki challenges Jamnis with a hypothetical curveball scenario, leading Jamnis to create an example around trophy engraving ERP software and explain why direct sales or channel strategies suit niche B2B software better than marketing-heavy self-serve.10:56–14:46 · Guest teaching 5/10 Essential Advice for First-Time Founders Selling Their Business Jamnis delivers detailed advice on financial transparency and warned against valuation comparisons with external market anomalies. Gazdecki validates this by sharing his own marketplace experience where founders cite 100x competitor valuations.14:46–17:18 · Guest teaching 4/10 Highlight Acquisitions: SixConnex and Legacy Faxing Jamnis shares case studies on SixConnex and legacy fax software. Gazdecki notes the role of market timing from a TED talk perspective, while Jamnis elaborates on operational scaling post-acquisition.17:18–21:03 · Guest teaching 5/10 M&A Market Trends and Evaluating Buyer Intentions Gazdecki asks for market predictions, prompting Jamnis to give a thoughtful breakdown of private equity market froth, unsustainable underwriting promises, and financial engineering risks.21:03–24:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Conor Chamness's Favorite Books Gazdecki closes with rapid-fire lifestyle questions regarding favorite books and entrepreneurial role models. The tone is casual and warm throughout.1:03–4:03 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Overview of Dura Software's Acquisition Strategy Gazdecki opens with an open-ended introductory prompt asking about Dura Software's background and acquisition track record. Jamnis gives an educational overview explaining how permanent capital software aggregators operate and create value for niche software businesses.4:04–7:13 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Dura's Track Record and Hyper-Niche Focus Gazdecki asks Jamnis to outline his dream target profile, prompting Jamnis to detail financial benchmarks like low-to-moderate growth, high retention, and clear operational upside.7:13–10:55 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Hypothetical Target: Trophy Engraving ERP & Sales Models Gazdecki challenges Jamnis with a hypothetical curveball scenario, leading Jamnis to create an example around trophy engraving ERP software and explain why direct sales or channel strategies suit niche B2B software better than marketing-heavy self-serve.10:56–14:46 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Essential Advice for First-Time Founders Selling Their Business Jamnis delivers detailed advice on financial transparency and warned against valuation comparisons with external market anomalies. Gazdecki validates this by sharing his own marketplace experience where founders cite 100x competitor valuations.14:46–17:18 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Highlight Acquisitions: SixConnex and Legacy Faxing Jamnis shares case studies on SixConnex and legacy fax software. Gazdecki notes the role of market timing from a TED talk perspective, while Jamnis elaborates on operational scaling post-acquisition.17:18–21:03 · Guest disagreement 0/10 M&A Market Trends and Evaluating Buyer Intentions Gazdecki asks for market predictions, prompting Jamnis to give a thoughtful breakdown of private equity market froth, unsustainable underwriting promises, and financial engineering risks.21:03–24:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Conor Chamness's Favorite Books Gazdecki closes with rapid-fire lifestyle questions regarding favorite books and entrepreneurial role models. The tone is casual and warm throughout.1:03–4:03 · Andrew pushing back 0/10 Overview of Dura Software's Acquisition Strategy Gazdecki opens with an open-ended introductory prompt asking about Dura Software's background and acquisition track record. Jamnis gives an educational overview explaining how permanent capital software aggregators operate and create value for niche software businesses.4:04–7:13 · Andrew pushing back 0/10 Dura's Track Record and Hyper-Niche Focus Gazdecki asks Jamnis to outline his dream target profile, prompting Jamnis to detail financial benchmarks like low-to-moderate growth, high retention, and clear operational upside.7:13–10:55 · Andrew pushing back 0/10 Hypothetical Target: Trophy Engraving ERP & Sales Models Gazdecki challenges Jamnis with a hypothetical curveball scenario, leading Jamnis to create an example around trophy engraving ERP software and explain why direct sales or channel strategies suit niche B2B software better than marketing-heavy self-serve.10:56–14:46 · Andrew pushing back 0/10 Essential Advice for First-Time Founders Selling Their Business Jamnis delivers detailed advice on financial transparency and warned against valuation comparisons with external market anomalies. Gazdecki validates this by sharing his own marketplace experience where founders cite 100x competitor valuations.14:46–17:18 · Andrew pushing back 0/10 Highlight Acquisitions: SixConnex and Legacy Faxing Jamnis shares case studies on SixConnex and legacy fax software. Gazdecki notes the role of market timing from a TED talk perspective, while Jamnis elaborates on operational scaling post-acquisition.17:18–21:03 · Andrew pushing back 0/10 M&A Market Trends and Evaluating Buyer Intentions Gazdecki asks for market predictions, prompting Jamnis to give a thoughtful breakdown of private equity market froth, unsustainable underwriting promises, and financial engineering risks.21:03–24:06 · Andrew pushing back 0/10 Conor Chamness's Favorite Books Gazdecki closes with rapid-fire lifestyle questions regarding favorite books and entrepreneurial role models. The tone is casual and warm throughout.

speaking balance: gold is Andrew, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Andrew 18.8% · guest 81.2%0:00 · Andrew 18.8% · guest 81.2%3:00 · Andrew 17.9% · guest 82.1%3:00 · Andrew 17.9% · guest 82.1%6:00 · Andrew 15.6% · guest 84.4%6:00 · Andrew 15.6% · guest 84.4%9:00 · Andrew 28.9% · guest 71.1%9:00 · Andrew 28.9% · guest 71.1%12:00 · Andrew 11.7% · guest 88.3%12:00 · Andrew 11.7% · guest 88.3%15:00 · Andrew 21.9% · guest 78.1%15:00 · Andrew 21.9% · guest 78.1%18:00 · Andrew 6.5% · guest 93.5%18:00 · Andrew 6.5% · guest 93.5%21:00 · Andrew 16.3% · guest 83.7%21:00 · Andrew 16.3% · guest 83.7%24:00 · Andrew 28.5% · guest 71.5%24:00 · Andrew 28.5% · guest 71.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:00 Critique of unsustainable PE deal structures

In a non-combative interview, Jamnis is most critical when calling out PE firms that make unrealistic growth promises to founders requiring financial engineering.

 Hardest push from Andrew ▶ 7:13 Host pushes for hyper-specific industry hypothetical

Gazdecki throws a curveball at Jamnis, pressing him to invent an exact niche industry, size, and business model target on the spot.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:05 Explaining buyer retrading and granular customer data

Jamnis clearly educates the audience and host on why sellers should share granular invoicing data early to avoid predatory buyers offering inflated valuations only to retrade later.

 Andrew holds their own ▶ 14:33 Gazdecki corroborates unrealistic multiple expectations

Gazdecki demonstrates his own acquisition domain expertise by validating Jamnis's point with real examples of founders citing unrealistic 100x competitor valuations.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicAndrew as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementAndrew pushing backWhy
Overview of Dura Software's Acquisition Strategy 2400 Gazdecki opens with an open-ended introductory prompt asking about Dura Software's background and acquisition track record. Jamnis gives an educational overview explaining how permanent capital software aggregators operate and create value for niche software businesses.
Dura's Track Record and Hyper-Niche Focus 2300 Gazdecki asks Jamnis to outline his dream target profile, prompting Jamnis to detail financial benchmarks like low-to-moderate growth, high retention, and clear operational upside.
Hypothetical Target: Trophy Engraving ERP & Sales Models 3400 Gazdecki challenges Jamnis with a hypothetical curveball scenario, leading Jamnis to create an example around trophy engraving ERP software and explain why direct sales or channel strategies suit niche B2B software better than marketing-heavy self-serve.
Essential Advice for First-Time Founders Selling Their Business 4500 Jamnis delivers detailed advice on financial transparency and warned against valuation comparisons with external market anomalies. Gazdecki validates this by sharing his own marketplace experience where founders cite 100x competitor valuations.
Highlight Acquisitions: SixConnex and Legacy Faxing 3400 Jamnis shares case studies on SixConnex and legacy fax software. Gazdecki notes the role of market timing from a TED talk perspective, while Jamnis elaborates on operational scaling post-acquisition.
M&A Market Trends and Evaluating Buyer Intentions 3500 Gazdecki asks for market predictions, prompting Jamnis to give a thoughtful breakdown of private equity market froth, unsustainable underwriting promises, and financial engineering risks.
Conor Chamness's Favorite Books 2300 Gazdecki closes with rapid-fire lifestyle questions regarding favorite books and entrepreneurial role models. The tone is casual and warm throughout.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Chamness: Dura Software Operates as Permanent Capital and Never Sells Acquisitions
“It means we're permanent capital. We're not going to sell your business. And so we're taking a long view on it.”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 2:04
Disclosure
Chamness: Dura Software Targets $2M to $5M Software Business Acquisitions
“We buy sub ten million dollars off our businesses, but the sweet spot is kind of two to two to five.”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 2:27
Disclosure
Chamness: Dura Software Targets Low-Growth, High-Retention Software With Exiting Founders
“Dream business for Dura is you know, has a couple of key ingredients. There is kind of the financial profile, which is, you know, high retention, moderate to low growth, you know, could be slightly under pacing inflation to, you know, 15% maybe you know, maybe…”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 5:12
Disclosure
Chamness: Dura Software Seeks Acquisition Targets With Over 70% Recurring Revenue
“As long as there is predictable maintenance revenue, because buyers like us, we need to buy predictability. So, you know, north of 70% recurring is ideal.”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 8:43
Disclosure
Chamness: Dura Prefers Direct and Channel Sales Over Marketing-Heavy SaaS
“So generally speaking, we like businesses that where we can, you know, build a list of customers and go, go find them. So we like a direct sales model or a channel sales model to a really marketing heavy or marketing intensive business. We'll, we'll certainly …”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 9:19
Insight
Chamness: Sharing Granular Data Early Prevents M&A Buyers From Retrading Deals
“Allow the buyers to dig in deep enough that they can get answers to the questions they need to know and sooner rather than later. Cause that's the big thing that I run into a lot is especially in a competitive market there are going to be buyers that don't wan…”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 13:04
Insight
Chamness: Founders Should Negotiate M&A Valuation on Metrics, Not Market Comps
“When you're negotiating with the buyer, especially a financial buyer make the negotiation about your specific business, not your market. Right. There are a lot of things you can point to External to your company that are going crazy in technology. But you know…”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 13:44
Disclosure
Chamness: Dura Software Acquired Virtual Events Platform SixConnex in 2019
“We have a virtual events business called Six Connects which we purchased in 2019 and so we rode the pandemic wave in a, in an insane way.”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 15:10
Opinion
Chamness: Legacy Fax Software Is Not Dead and Makes Great Businesses
“Fax is not dead, folks and they're great businesses, so.”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 16:57
Opinion
Chamness: SaaS Sellers Are Receiving Unrealistic Guarantees From Acquirers
“Right now, I think that sellers are getting a lot of promises that aren't going to be delivered on because they're just not, you know, not realistic.”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 18:37
Opinion
Chamness: Corporate Buyers of Software Companies Often Lack Humility
“I think when you when you buy somebody's software company, there is a certain level of humility that is often lacking Especially for somebody that's in my seat that is doing very little of the doing post acquisition.”
Conor Jamnis May 2, 2022 ▶ 21:49
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