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Jan 12, 2022 · 47m · saastr

Lessons Learned Scaling with Canva's CMO Zach Kitschke and SaaStr CEO Jason Lemkin

Zach Kitschke · 38m spoken Jason Lemkin · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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Canva CMO Zach Kitschke joins SaaStr CEO Jason Lemkin to share five essential scaling lessons that propelled Canva from an early-stage startup into a global design platform approaching one billion dollars in ARR.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Jason holds 11.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Jason as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 0.0 Jason pushing back 0.2
05100:0015:0030:0045:005:02–16:43 · Jason as informed peer 2/10 Canva's Growth and Lesson 1: Building Community Zach delivers a structured presentation on Canva's initial growth and community building, detailing early in-person workshops, content marketing, and prototyping with Huffington Post. Jason interjects once with a standard clarifying question about Canva's early 10x feature.16:45–22:41 · Jason as informed peer 2/10 Lesson 2: Just-in-Time Learning and Handing Over Your Lego Zach covers internal scaling, delegating responsibilities, and launching international languages by tackling Spanish first. Jason asks a friendly clarifying question on whether localization was driven by geography or multilingual users.22:45–25:43 · Jason as informed peer 0/10 Lesson 3: Dominating a Niche Before Expanding Broadly Zach delivers an uninterrupted monologue detailing Canva's strategy of mastering social media graphics before expanding into newsrooms and presentations. Jason does not speak during this segment, necessitating zeros for host metrics.25:45–34:07 · Jason as informed peer 4/10 Lesson 4: Designing for the Future and Long-Term Bets Zach shares insights on long-term bets and localization infrastructure. Jason shows SaaS familiarity by asking specific operational questions about international product marketing teams and enterprise sales in non-English geographies.34:07–39:37 · Jason as informed peer 1/10 Lesson 5: Building Culture and Creating Peak Moments Zach walks through workplace culture rituals and experiential moments inspired by 'The Power of Moments'. Jason chimes in briefly only to acknowledge the book title before letting Zach finish his presentation.39:38–46:47 · Jason as informed peer 5/10 Audience Q&A: Product Funnel, Pricing, and Community Strategy Jason moderates audience Q&A, drilling into Canva's bottoms-up enterprise conversion funnel, micro-transaction pricing vs. subscriptions, and defining true community strategy. Zach details how organic product usage directly feeds their enterprise sales pipeline.5:02–16:43 · Guest teaching 4/10 Canva's Growth and Lesson 1: Building Community Zach delivers a structured presentation on Canva's initial growth and community building, detailing early in-person workshops, content marketing, and prototyping with Huffington Post. Jason interjects once with a standard clarifying question about Canva's early 10x feature.16:45–22:41 · Guest teaching 3/10 Lesson 2: Just-in-Time Learning and Handing Over Your Lego Zach covers internal scaling, delegating responsibilities, and launching international languages by tackling Spanish first. Jason asks a friendly clarifying question on whether localization was driven by geography or multilingual users.22:45–25:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Lesson 3: Dominating a Niche Before Expanding Broadly Zach delivers an uninterrupted monologue detailing Canva's strategy of mastering social media graphics before expanding into newsrooms and presentations. Jason does not speak during this segment, necessitating zeros for host metrics.25:45–34:07 · Guest teaching 3/10 Lesson 4: Designing for the Future and Long-Term Bets Zach shares insights on long-term bets and localization infrastructure. Jason shows SaaS familiarity by asking specific operational questions about international product marketing teams and enterprise sales in non-English geographies.34:07–39:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Lesson 5: Building Culture and Creating Peak Moments Zach walks through workplace culture rituals and experiential moments inspired by 'The Power of Moments'. Jason chimes in briefly only to acknowledge the book title before letting Zach finish his presentation.39:38–46:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Audience Q&A: Product Funnel, Pricing, and Community Strategy Jason moderates audience Q&A, drilling into Canva's bottoms-up enterprise conversion funnel, micro-transaction pricing vs. subscriptions, and defining true community strategy. Zach details how organic product usage directly feeds their enterprise sales pipeline.5:02–16:43 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Canva's Growth and Lesson 1: Building Community Zach delivers a structured presentation on Canva's initial growth and community building, detailing early in-person workshops, content marketing, and prototyping with Huffington Post. Jason interjects once with a standard clarifying question about Canva's early 10x feature.16:45–22:41 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Lesson 2: Just-in-Time Learning and Handing Over Your Lego Zach covers internal scaling, delegating responsibilities, and launching international languages by tackling Spanish first. Jason asks a friendly clarifying question on whether localization was driven by geography or multilingual users.22:45–25:43 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Lesson 3: Dominating a Niche Before Expanding Broadly Zach delivers an uninterrupted monologue detailing Canva's strategy of mastering social media graphics before expanding into newsrooms and presentations. Jason does not speak during this segment, necessitating zeros for host metrics.25:45–34:07 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Lesson 4: Designing for the Future and Long-Term Bets Zach shares insights on long-term bets and localization infrastructure. Jason shows SaaS familiarity by asking specific operational questions about international product marketing teams and enterprise sales in non-English geographies.34:07–39:37 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Lesson 5: Building Culture and Creating Peak Moments Zach walks through workplace culture rituals and experiential moments inspired by 'The Power of Moments'. Jason chimes in briefly only to acknowledge the book title before letting Zach finish his presentation.39:38–46:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Audience Q&A: Product Funnel, Pricing, and Community Strategy Jason moderates audience Q&A, drilling into Canva's bottoms-up enterprise conversion funnel, micro-transaction pricing vs. subscriptions, and defining true community strategy. Zach details how organic product usage directly feeds their enterprise sales pipeline.5:02–16:43 · Jason pushing back 0/10 Canva's Growth and Lesson 1: Building Community Zach delivers a structured presentation on Canva's initial growth and community building, detailing early in-person workshops, content marketing, and prototyping with Huffington Post. Jason interjects once with a standard clarifying question about Canva's early 10x feature.16:45–22:41 · Jason pushing back 0/10 Lesson 2: Just-in-Time Learning and Handing Over Your Lego Zach covers internal scaling, delegating responsibilities, and launching international languages by tackling Spanish first. Jason asks a friendly clarifying question on whether localization was driven by geography or multilingual users.22:45–25:43 · Jason pushing back 0/10 Lesson 3: Dominating a Niche Before Expanding Broadly Zach delivers an uninterrupted monologue detailing Canva's strategy of mastering social media graphics before expanding into newsrooms and presentations. Jason does not speak during this segment, necessitating zeros for host metrics.25:45–34:07 · Jason pushing back 0/10 Lesson 4: Designing for the Future and Long-Term Bets Zach shares insights on long-term bets and localization infrastructure. Jason shows SaaS familiarity by asking specific operational questions about international product marketing teams and enterprise sales in non-English geographies.34:07–39:37 · Jason pushing back 0/10 Lesson 5: Building Culture and Creating Peak Moments Zach walks through workplace culture rituals and experiential moments inspired by 'The Power of Moments'. Jason chimes in briefly only to acknowledge the book title before letting Zach finish his presentation.39:38–46:47 · Jason pushing back 1/10 Audience Q&A: Product Funnel, Pricing, and Community Strategy Jason moderates audience Q&A, drilling into Canva's bottoms-up enterprise conversion funnel, micro-transaction pricing vs. subscriptions, and defining true community strategy. Zach details how organic product usage directly feeds their enterprise sales pipeline.

speaking balance: gold is Jason, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Jason 47.1% · guest 52.9%0:00 · Jason 47.1% · guest 52.9%3:00 · Jason 39.9% · guest 60.1%3:00 · Jason 39.9% · guest 60.1%6:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Jason 7.2% · guest 92.8%9:00 · Jason 7.2% · guest 92.8%12:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%18:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%18:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%21:00 · Jason 6.6% · guest 93.4%21:00 · Jason 6.6% · guest 93.4%24:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%24:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%27:00 · Jason 8.4% · guest 91.6%27:00 · Jason 8.4% · guest 91.6%30:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%30:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%33:00 · Jason 1.6% · guest 98.4%33:00 · Jason 1.6% · guest 98.4%36:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%36:00 · Jason 0% · guest 100%39:00 · Jason 27.7% · guest 72.3%39:00 · Jason 27.7% · guest 72.3%42:00 · Jason 36% · guest 64%42:00 · Jason 36% · guest 64%45:00 · Jason 17.1% · guest 82.9%45:00 · Jason 17.1% · guest 82.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 41:26 Clarifying bottoms-up demand versus top-down sales

In an entirely amicable session, Zach gently reframes Jason's assumption regarding outbound enterprise hunting by explaining enterprise demand almost exclusively originates from organic end-user adoption.

 Hardest push from Jason ▶ 41:26 Jason pushes on enterprise sales mechanics

Jason pushes past the high-level bottoms-up narrative to question whether Canva relies on purely organic conversion or employs an active outbound sales team targeting enterprise accounts.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 27:25 Zach breaks down regional monetization divergence

Zach educates the audience and host on how Canva tailors monetization globally, contrasting mobile small-business adoption in India with enterprise adoption in the US and education uptake in Mexico.

 Jason holds their own ▶ 44:03 Jason synthesizes micro-pricing as a subscription funnel

Jason brings sharp SaaS pricing insight, reframing Canva's one-dollar image licensing from a legacy disruption mechanism into a stepping stone toward recurring subscriptions.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicJason as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementJason pushing backWhy
Canva's Growth and Lesson 1: Building Community 2400 Zach delivers a structured presentation on Canva's initial growth and community building, detailing early in-person workshops, content marketing, and prototyping with Huffington Post. Jason interjects once with a standard clarifying question about Canva's early 10x feature.
Lesson 2: Just-in-Time Learning and Handing Over Your Lego 2300 Zach covers internal scaling, delegating responsibilities, and launching international languages by tackling Spanish first. Jason asks a friendly clarifying question on whether localization was driven by geography or multilingual users.
Lesson 3: Dominating a Niche Before Expanding Broadly 0200 Zach delivers an uninterrupted monologue detailing Canva's strategy of mastering social media graphics before expanding into newsrooms and presentations. Jason does not speak during this segment, necessitating zeros for host metrics.
Lesson 4: Designing for the Future and Long-Term Bets 4300 Zach shares insights on long-term bets and localization infrastructure. Jason shows SaaS familiarity by asking specific operational questions about international product marketing teams and enterprise sales in non-English geographies.
Lesson 5: Building Culture and Creating Peak Moments 1200 Zach walks through workplace culture rituals and experiential moments inspired by 'The Power of Moments'. Jason chimes in briefly only to acknowledge the book title before letting Zach finish his presentation.
Audience Q&A: Product Funnel, Pricing, and Community Strategy 5401 Jason moderates audience Q&A, drilling into Canva's bottoms-up enterprise conversion funnel, micro-transaction pricing vs. subscriptions, and defining true community strategy. Zach details how organic product usage directly feeds their enterprise sales pipeline.

Statements from this episode (11)

Opinion
Lemkin: Tech CMO tenures can be measured in single-digit months
“And especially these days, it seems like CMO has a half-life sometimes measured in single digit months. There's so much turnover at the top”
Jason Lemkin Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 1:40
Assertion Supported
Kitschke: Canva has 60 million monthly active users and 2,000 employees
“We now have more than sixty million people creating with Canva every single month all around the world. We've got a global team as well. So there's sort of 2000 people you know, across Australia, the US, the Philippines, China throughout Europe as well. As you…”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 5:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kitschke: Most Canva growth comes from word of mouth and organic channels
“A large part of our, actually the majority of our growth still comes from, you know, word of mouth and organic, and so that's been a critical lever of growth over the years.”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 7:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kitschke: The vast majority of Canva users use the free product tier
“We continue to this day to have the vast majority of our community using Canva for free”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 13:04
Assertion Supported
Kitschke: Canva expanded to 100 languages by 2017
“We figured out a lot of the processes and the systems and then you know, tackled the 20 languages and then by 20 17 that goal reached, reached a hundred languages.”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 21:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kitschke: Presentations are Canva's largest and fastest-growing use case
“Presentations is actually our largest use case and our fastest growing and alongside things like video and other content types as well.”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 23:30
Assertion Partly supported
Kitschke: Over 80% of Canva users use non-English languages
“More than 80% of our community use Canva in a language other than English.”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 26:15
Assertion Supported
Kitschke: Canva's real-time collaborative design feature took eight years to ship
“It was actually you know, a feature we launched, which meant that people for the first time could collaborate in real time on Canva, and it was actually something that our CTO Dave had, had set as a goal you know, eight years earlier, and it had just been this…”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 33:23
Insight
Kitschke: Standout Peak Moments Make People Forgive Flaws in an Experience
“The core premise is that people are actually willing to put up with a lot of Of stuff if there's these really outstanding moments you know, in an experience”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 34:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kitschke: Many Fortune 500 Companies Have Thousands of Canva Users
“Many of the fortune 500 will have thousands of you know, individual users or small teams on the platform.”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 41:06
Assertion Supported
Kitschke: Canva's One-Dollar Image License Was Unprecedented at Launch
“When we launched Canva you know, the one dollar photo license was something that hadn't been done before, and so, because you're using it within Canva, you know, it means we can kind of control the usage, and so it's a dollar per use.”
Zach Kitschke Jan 12, 2022 ▶ 43:08
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