The Exchanges

Q Do we want to give the, uh, prognosis, Jess?

A We'll give the prognosis. Sam did not break his shoulder, his rib, or his collarbone. So he's in significant pain, but it's not broken. So anyway, dear listeners, thank you for that. Now we are ready. And Sam may or may not show up, but it will have nothing to do With his, um, perfectly intact bones. So, okay, let's start with OpenClaw. So the information reported this week that, uh, the founder of OpenClaw was going over to OpenAI. The announcement was quickly followed by OpenAI announcing that the news was true. And interestingly, that a new foundation for this red hot open source project that we've been talking about nonstop on this pod Called Open Claw. Uh, this foundation would be established, and who would be on this board of said foundation? Well, none other than Dave Morin. So, we are honored to be in the presence of Open Claw Foundation Board greatness. Dave, what can you tell us about this exciting project?

AI assessment note: “We'll give the prognosis. Sam did not break his shoulder, his rib, or his collarbone.”

Q But then, and then OpenAI filing, saying it's expected, our IPO is expected within the next year is very vague to me. Do you have any more intel on that?

A I'm going to hand it to OpenAI, right? So they filed their, both Anthropoc and OpenAI announced themselves that they had filed Confidentially smart. Cause you know, all those pesky reporters are all over them all the time. And then open AI then proceeds to explain all the reasons it might not go public. Like, well, actually, I don't know what's in the press release, what versus my sources say, but, but combination of my sources in the press release is like, well, you know, we might like the development of the models might change the trajectory, or we might want flexibility to change our token economics to gain market share, or. We might want to do another unusual deal. Like the one, the information just reported this week of where they're doing a data center, but Nvidia is involved in potentially leasing the chips.

AI assessment note: “combination of my sources in the press release is like, well, you know, we might”

Q But you as a reporter, don't you feel like the need to disclose everything to anyone you're talking to? Cause you're literally having off the record conversations all the time.

A But I'm also talking about meeting. Like if I'm having a meeting about an upcoming project internally, right? So it doesn't even have to be But I bet if I had off the record conversations and said, hey, this is off the record. Same terms. You've known me for 20 years. It's always been off the record. But by the way, I'm really interested in what you have to say, and I want to make sure I understand it and get the most out of it, so I'm going to record it for myself. You know, maybe 50% of people say no, but 50% of people say yes, right? Because, and they might, I, I would give them the same courtesy, right, if I were sharing my thoughts.

AI assessment note: “if I had off the record conversations and said... I'm going to record it”

Q Well, your opinion on personal liberty could, is this the direction?

A Yeah, and yes, sorry, these, this would be the staff opinion writers of the Washington Post are going to make arguments and follow topics that follow those, um, those beliefs or advance those agendas, and my reaction to this was actually, yeah, Bezos has finally figured out why a lot of people want to own newspapers, which is actually, The opinion pages, and this is controversial, but there are many people who view the opinion pages as where the proprietor of said publication should, um, advance their agenda, or it is more open to that, and so even if you look at the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch, um, people, this is arguable, but there are many people who think he would have used the opinion sections of the Post and the Journal as To advance his political agendas, and journalists like myself like that out of the news coverage, but it's a more accepted place for it to be, um, in the opinion section. Now, of course, I think people are right to want to be vigilant about what happens over there in the editorial page, in the news pages as well, but my reaction to this wasn't surprising that an owner of a publication wants to use the opinion section to Promote beliefs they believe in. But it was, like, one of the first times when, like, I was like, oh, someone's told Jeff what he can do with the newspaper. Like, he actually seems to be-

AI assessment note: “staff opinion writers of the Washington Post are going to make arguments”

Q Ok, but, they, why can't they just sit on their beach?

A You can feel that way. I wanna, let me finish my point. Because there will be a next CEO of Google, and listeners of our pod may be interested, in my opinion, and other people's opinion on who that's gonna be, which again is grounded in reporting. When I saw Demis at Davos this year, he was talking, like, it was like a CEO road tour. Google was trotting him out to every publisher, and he wasn't just talking about Gemini, and he wasn't just talking about DeepMind, he wasn't just talking about isomorphic, he was talking about Google Cloud, he was talking about regulations, he was talking about all of this stuff. So, I don't say this with super high confidence. I think this is actually a really interesting and open question in the technology business right now about what path Google goes on, but I don't think people should read this as like Demis is totally out of that game. I think he is very ambitious. I think the platform of running what will be the world's most valuable company is interesting, and I don't think it necessarily has to evolve like a lot of day-to-day management and people reviews, which I don't think he's interesting.

AI assessment note: “I think he is very ambitious. I think the platform of running what will be”

Q Wait, can you explain, explain some examples of what they're doing to regulate it?

A So there was a, a, a California bill that passed but was vetoed by Newsom, I think, roughly. I might have gotten the details of that wrong, um, a year or so ago, and it was part of, I mean, it was during the Biden administration, and it was It was controversial among the models, but Anthropic kind of got on board and helped shape it, and I don't really remember the details, but it was aggressive, right? I mean, it was sort of putting up guardrails around training models and all that kind of stuff. Scott Weiner, who's running now for Nancy Pelosi's congressional seat, was, was the, a big lead on that bill, but I mean, it obviously got vetoed by the governor, but since then, I mean, California was also a first mover on privacy legislation, In the lines of Europe that, you know, spurred a wave of other things. So Sam, make the case. I mean, I know you're, I don't think you're a constitutional lawyer, so there is that question, but.

AI assessment note: “there was a, a, a California bill that passed but was vetoed by Newsom”

Q Well, I mean, wasn't Twitter a perfect example of that, right? A lot of brands pulled out of advertising on X, you know, based on Elon and everything else that was happening there, but it, I mean, how detrimental was it to that business? It didn't, I mean, a lot of them came back.

A More like if we, if I think it's right to say that this moment is sort of defined by a lot of the companies distant, sort of being able to distance themselves, their business and their employees from some of these issues, not all of them, but some of them. And also to recognize that these things are a cycle. And I think part of the reason they can do that is because The businesses went through huge layoffs, and like, they just have a lot of leverage that swung back. I think if you play it out, I mean, we've talked a lot about OpenAI and how we think a lot of the decisions that have been made there have been made by very zealous people who, you know, not necessarily on culture war issues, but, you know, maybe AGI and those things do become culture war issues, and it seems very beholden to employees. So, I don't know. I guess it's like on the corporate side, which way do we think the pendulum's swinging? Do we think three, five years from now we'll be in the same boat where, you know, Google's going to Do deals with the Israeli military and, and fire its companies who oppose or, you know, are we at the risk of things swinging back?

AI assessment note: “I guess it's like on the corporate side, which way do we think the pendulum's swinging?”

Q Yeah, no, I agree. Wait, I have a question, Jess, what do you mean by feminine energy? Like, what do we need to bring to the, to bear here?

A I mean, whatever people want to break, whatever they want, the point isn't to define it. I just think that, like, the discourse among business leaders and political leaders and everyone around the world is, like, to get loud right now. And every individual is unique and authentic in their own way, but, like, I think for the people who, like, feel called to, like, get loud about their accomplishments, their Point of view, you know, their interests, their hobbies, their convening power. Like, I think that is powerful, and that some of that is needed to break through and highlight the contributions of, um, you know, a broad group of people right now. But I don't, it's like, the point isn't to define it. The point is to, like, unleash more energy. Because what's really clear is, like, the rhetoric, the energy, The discourse has, like, been dialed to a 22, um, and I think, you know, and, and from conversations, like, a lot of people don't feel like they have a seat at that table, and I, I think one of the things that does make a difference, and then I'll shut up, is like, you know, this idea of role models, the idea of seeing people who are out there, the idea of people taking cover for other people, and I think that's just a powerful thing, and it doesn't have to just break down along gender lines. It's actually, like, a point much broader than that.

AI assessment note: “the point isn't to define it. The point is to, like, unleash more energy.”