Oct 13, 2023 · 40m · more-or-less
#18: Why This Week Changed Social Media Forever · More or Less Podcast
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of the 'More or Less' podcast, tech entrepreneurs and commentators Brit Morin, Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, and Sam Lessin analyze how the Israel-Hamas war exposed the collapse of social media news moderation, the moral paralysis of Silicon Valley leadership, and the urgent need for ethical venture capital and intimate digital networks.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 3.4 The hosts pushing back 4.1
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 37:11 Sam Dismisses California VC Diversity Reporting Mandate
Sam bluntly rejects California's new VC diversity legislation as 'ridiculous,' drawing an aggressive philosophical line against state-mandated reporting.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 12:19 Jessica Refuses the Geopolitical Complexity ExcuseJessica firmly refuses Dave and Sam's framing that tech leaders remain silent out of humility or historical ignorance, arguing that condemning terrorism does not require solving foreign policy.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 29:37 Sam Reframes the Structural Limits of JournalismSam dismantles Jessica's optimism about journalism's comeback by illustrating how subscription paywalls naturally limit quality news to wealthy elites.
The host holds their own ▶ 17:55 Jessica Details Musk's Cloud Cuts and European Regulatory ActionJessica demonstrates sharp industry expertise by detailing how Elon Musk's infrastructure cost-cutting eliminated internal moderation tools and triggered European regulatory scrutiny.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Animated Opening Title Sequence and Theme | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | The episode opens with casual banter about driving the New Jersey Turnpike before Sam lays out a three-part agenda focusing on the tech industry's reaction to the Israel-Hamas war. The tone is collaborative and focused on framing the upcoming discussion. | |
| Tech Leaders vs. Politicians on Speaking Out | 7 | 4 | 4 | 7 | Jessica forcefully argues that tech executives have a moral obligation to explicitly condemn terrorism rather than releasing bland statements. Dave and Sam push alternative explanations including fear of cancel culture, corporate global footprints, and physical employee security, but Jessica pushes back by citing corporate responses to 9/11. | |
| Social Networks Retreating from News and Section 230 | 7 | 5 | 3 | 4 | Sam outlines his thesis that AI-driven misinformation will kill Section 230, prompting platforms to censor news entirely rather than risk liability. Jessica adds specific reporting on Elon Musk terminating anti-disinformation tools at X over cloud costs and notes impending European regulatory action. | |
| The Death of the Public Square and Moderation | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | Dave laments the disintegration of the digital public square into fragmented, encrypted channels where misinformation thrives unchecked. When Jessica asks why users cannot simply rely on traditional outlets like The New York Times, both Dave and Sam counter that legacy outlets are too slow and lack comprehensive coverage. | |
| The Case for Path 2.0: Restoring Connection | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | After Brit pitches a revival of Path to restore intimate connections, Jessica suggests this crisis offers a prime opportunity for trustworthy journalism to regain cultural standing. Sam counters with an economic reframe, explaining that subscription business models restrict quality journalism to elites, leaving mass culture to rely on influencer networks. | |
| Geopolitics and Ethical Capital: LP Transparency | 6 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Sam suggests founders should demand transparency regarding the underlying limited partners backing their venture capital funds to ensure moral alignment. Dave strongly aligns with Sam, sharing his own practice of asking institutional LPs how they allocate investment proceeds. | |
| Debating California's Venture Capital Diversity Reporting Law | 5 | 2 | 6 | 6 | Jessica brings up California's newly signed law mandating venture capital diversity reporting, which Sam immediately rejects as ridiculous. Jessica promptly demands he defend his dismissal on the record before Brit steps in to defend the law's intent. |
Statements from this episode (14)
Sam Lessin: Tech leaders and academia are hamstrung speaking on Israel
“Normally we talk about how empowered VCs and especially tech leaders are to speak their mind and the truth and how hemmed in politicians are. But in this instance, with this situation, we're seeing the opposite, which is, you know, Biden can say the right thin…”
Jessica Lessin: Leaders Who Speak on Hamas Attack Must Condemn Terrorism
“If you are a leader who feels compelled to speak out on this, I personally actually believe you have a, Moral responsibility to kind of say more than, you know, my focus is with our people.”
Sam Lessin: Harvard and Stanford Responses to Hamas Attacks Are Unacceptable
“Where I think the universities, the elite universities have been the worst. Right. Like, you know, their responses have been awful. And there are exceptions, et cetera. I'm thinking specifically of Harvard and Stanford, you know, like truly unacceptable in ter…”
Sam Lessin: Politicians Responded Better to Hamas Attacks Than Tech Leaders
“The politicians who are usually the worst, I think have actually been the best. Right. I guess this is their arena. And they are the ones that actually can pick sides.”
Jessica Lessin: Historical Section 230 protections are dead in the water
“Section two thirties dead. In, as section two 30 as it has existed, which is basically given, and really at the time it was the YouTube, you know, allowed YouTube to flourish with user generated content. And it says, as long as you have a mechanism for taking …”
Jessica Lessin: Musk killed Twitter's misinformation tool to cut Google Cloud costs
“The information reported this week that Elon had killed a tool that had been involved, that Exit or Twitter had been using to spot fakes and misinformation, and he killed it because it was hosted on Google Cloud, and in his big cost-cutting efforts, he had wan…”
Dave Morin: Society will lose the common public square to encrypted channels
“Freedom of speech lives on, and it goes into encrypted channels, and people go even further into their echo chambers, right? And there's no common square, right? Like, that to me is actually the scariest thing, is that we will lose the common square entirely, …”
Sam Lessin: Repealing Section 230 will cause platforms to ban news entirely
“The unintended consequences that I think politicians will think in their heads, oh, if we get rid of section two 30, it will force the companies to deal with fake information and fake news and AI news because we can't do it. Right. What it will do in fact and …”
Sam Lessin: Subscription News Orgs Won't Be Trusted Mass-Distribution Sources
“I don't, so I don't think it's going to be news orgs as much as I adore my wife. And I'll tell you why. I think it's a business model problem. So the news orgs have moved into a subscription model, which is correct for them. Right. And if you look at kind of a…”
Sam Lessin: Well-Known VCs Blocked Universities From Investing Over Politics
“I know of some instances where some well-known VCs have stopped some well-known schools from investing because they said, we don't want to work for you anymore based on your politics.”
Lessin: Founders Have the Right to Vet Who VCs Make Money For
“VCs do this, and I just think it's in every founder's right to do the same thing and say, look, you know, when competing offers come in, Who do I want to work for? And am I okay with if I make this person a billion dollars or a lot of money, what I think they'…”
Dave Morin Asks Prospective LPs How They Will Spend Fund Returns
“One of my favorite questions to ask LPs is what are you going to do with the money that we make you?”