Dec 1, 2023 · 51m · more-or-less
#25: TikTok, Porn and The Immediate Risks of AI · More or Less Podcast
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In this episode of the More or Less podcast, Brit Morin, Dave Morin, and Sam Lessin scrutinize the tangible, immediate dangers of artificial intelligence—including algorithmic weaponization on TikTok and non-consensual deepfake pornography—while dismissing apocalyptic AGI rhetoric. They explore how societal saturation with synthetic media will eventually spark a cultural renaissance centered on genuine human connection and innovative, de-escalating social architectures.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 3.7 Guest disagreement 3.4 The hosts pushing back 2.8
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 21:08 Rejecting 'Protecting Kids' as a Pretext for Authoritarian Regulation
Sam forcefully rejects Dave's push for federal deepfake bans, arguing that invocations to protect children are historic pretexts for stripping privacy and creating dangerous centralized registries.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 20:51 Dave Morin Insists on Child Protection Laws Against Deepfake PornDave firmly pushes back against Sam's laissez-faire stance, refusing to accept that society should simply get desensitized while minors suffer real psychological trauma in schools.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 38:58 Explaining Social Capital Inflation and Game Mechanics in NetworksSam educates the panel on social capital inflation theory, citing Aaron Sittig to explain why social networks must regularly launch new formats to prevent legacy users from monopolizing distribution.
The host holds their own ▶ 42:42 Dave Morin Applies Marvel CGI Fatigue to Validate the Synthetic Content CeilingDave demonstrates deep domain expertise by citing the commercial decline of formulaic Marvel CGI films to prove that consumer exhaustion with synthetic content is already provable in media markets.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| More or Less Podcast Title Sequence | 5 | 2 | 2 | 1 | Moderator Brit Morin opens the episode recapping feedback from the previous OpenAI board episode. Dave clarifies his perspective on AI deification, focusing on what AI fundamentally cannot do regarding human emotional nuance. | |
| TikTok as a Strategic Geopolitical Weapon | 6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | Sam Lessin forcefully argues that TikTok acts as a geopolitical superweapon controlled by China, using dirty AI to shape public perception ahead of potential conflicts. Brit agrees while prompting the hosts on their personal usage patterns. | |
| School Media Literacy vs. Algorithmic Manipulation | 7 | 5 | 6 | 4 | Sam openly mocks California's school media literacy mandate as ineffective against addictive recommendation engines. He also challenges Dave's framing regarding bits crossing borders, arguing that app stores have direct leverage to ban TikTok but are financially compromised. | |
| AI Deepfake Pornography as a Tangible Crisis | 5 | 3 | 3 | 3 | Dave introduces the immediate threat of AI deepfake pornography causing psychological harm in high schools, urging the group to focus on near-term damage over sci-fi AGI doomsday scenarios. Sam pushes Dave on whether any actionable solution exists. | |
| Debating Deepfake Laws, Facial Registries, and Privacy | 7 | 6 | 7 | 6 | A heated philosophical debate emerges as Dave and Brit argue for federal legislation to protect minors and public figures from deepfakes. Sam strongly rejects this framing, warning that centralized facial registries and phone-level hardware chips constitute a totalitarian slippery slope. | |
| AI Beauty Filters, Body Dysmorphia, and the Gin Craze | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | Brit highlights AI beauty filters exacerbating teen body dysmorphia, which Sam downplays as an accelerated version of existing vanity culture. Sam introduces the historical analogy of the 18th-century British Gin Craze to argue society eventually adapts to and grows bored of toxic innovations. | |
| The Renaissance of In-Person Living and Oral Exams | 7 | 4 | 2 | 2 | The panel explores constructive adaptations, such as schools returning to in-person oral examinations. Dave shares how divorcing couples utilize large language models to de-escalate hostile messages, demonstrating AI's productive capacity for emotional translation. | |
| Social Media Comment De-escalation and Emotional Damage | 5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Brit suggests social platforms implement AI rewrite warnings to prevent cancel culture in comment sections. The hosts joke about product features that alter hostile tones into pirate English or deliberately amplify emotional damage for shock value. | |
| Date Night Arguments: Napoleon, Wish, and Action Tropes | 6 | 3 | 3 | 3 | Brit and Dave humorously debate marital movie choices before pivoting back to social network design. Sam outlines an inverted social network where users pay to have customized bot personas and celebrities interact with and validate their personal posts. | |
| Social Capital Inflation and the Exhaustion of Machine Content | 8 | 5 | 3 | 3 | Sam explains social capital inflation and how platforms cycle mechanics to avoid stratification. Dave reinforces this observation by pointing to Marvel film fatigue, demonstrating how consumer burnout with synthetic CGI spectacle proves artificial content has strict limits. | |
| The Future of Storytelling and Rebuilding Social Networks | 7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Dave advocates for technology that enriches authentic human relationships rather than trapping users in parasocial AI bot companionships. Sam agrees, underscoring that human-centered community and storytelling remain the only durable assets. | |
| Prolon Fasting, Date Night Dilemma, and the Mystery Actor Pitch | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | The show transitions to informal banter about Sam's Prolon fasting diet and low-energy date night dilemmas. Brit wraps up the episode with housekeeping and listener calls to action. |
Statements from this episode (18)
Lessin: If Facebook had acquired the DMV, online identity would be better
“And candidly, I think had Facebook bought the DMV a long time ago, you know, the world would be a better place. We'd have better, better online identity. And, ah, and maybe we'd be a little bit safer from some of the crazy interference we see, ah, these days i…”
Lessin: China will weaponize TikTok algorithmically if it invades Taiwan
“But the second they want to go invade Taiwan, which they've said they want to do, you better believe that they will use their for-profit company, right, with, given their ulterior motives at a higher level, right, to soften the beaches by using AI to just kind…”
Lessin: TikTok's AI will defeat California's media literacy school programs
“I have to believe that forget AGI, the very, very dirty version of AI that we have with TikTok will defeat the California public schools education program on what is real and what is not.”
Dave Morin: US should have banned or restricted TikTok long ago
“I think we should have if not banned, like severely you know reduced TikTok's ability to influence the American audience a long time ago.”
Lessin: Apple will not remove TikTok due to China exposure
“Apple's not gonna kick them out. Apple's China exposure is enormous, right? Like, you know, even if they should, they won't, right?”
Lessin: Sequoia and Reid Hoffman are major TikTok investors
“Sequoia's an enormous investor. It's like, Reid Hoffman, who's a huge Democratic donor and would have a lot of sway in Washington as a huge investor. Like, they're all investors.”
Lessin: China won't manipulate TikTok yet to avoid burning the asset
“People are like, well, do you think the Chinese are manipulating it? And my general answer is no, because I think they're too smart to do that. Like, why waste the tool, right?”
Dave Morin: AI deepfake porn is already traumatizing American high schoolers
“There was actually a big article, I think it was in Bloomberg today, about AI porn and how there's, you know, a very serious problem already happening in American high schools where you've got people, you know, making, you know, lewd photos of each other and y…”
Lessin: Technology viability is proven first through pornography adoption
“It always starts with porn, right? If it actually works for porn, then like, it's a thing, right?”
Brit Morin: AI Editing Tools Drive Eating Disorders and Body Dysmorphia
“You can also argue that some of the AI tools that exist right now for like making you skinnier and like editing kind of your selfies. Are leading a lot of young girls to, like, eating disorders, or even young boys to, like, what do they call it? The, like, The…”
Lessin: AI Accelerates Image Modification but Does Not Fundamentally Change It
“AI absolutely elevates it. It makes it easier. It makes it more accessible, but it doesn't really fundamentally change the game. It just accelerates it.”
Lessin: Schools will return to oral exams because of AI cheating
“I just think like, we'll just go back to oral exams, right? Like everyone's going to cheat on their papers and like, you'll just stand and deliver the way you did a hundred years ago in front of a board and some old, you know, wood paneled room.”
Lessin: AI tools for rehearsing difficult conversations will be a massive space
“Like, if you told me that, like, the future is, like, there's, you know, you do use this stuff to be, like, I'm gonna fire someone. It's, like, here's what I'm gonna say. And you're like, all right, game, what are they gonna say back? And you, like, game theor…”
Dave Morin: High-quality AI bots will dominate social media comments by 2033
“And so, it stands to reason that 10 years from now, like, you know, yeah, bots really suck today. They're awful at their job. And so, you know, 10 years from now, we're gonna have a bunch of amazing bots, like, you know, commenting on all of our stuff, and.”
Lessin: New social platforms emerge because older networks' social capital gets stratified
“One of the reasons there's always, like, a new social product historically that comes out for a new generation is because the social capital structures of the old products get stratified and stuck, and so the new people don't want to play the rigged game”
Lessin: Platforms introduce Stories to reset stagnant social capital
“They actually introduce new features, right. In a way that opens up new distribution to allow effectively new economic growth. It's like a game. You have to keep playing and adapting. Like you might've been really big when Instagram was about posting, but like…”
Lessin: People will eventually ignore extreme AI porn out of boredom
“We'll see a bunch of weird shit and, like, weird porn. And, like, it's gonna get super extreme and strange, and, like, most people will just, like, turn it off because it's boring.”
Lessin: Bullish on Creators Because Media's Durable Core Is Human Connection
“I think it's going to be about connection and community, ultimately. And this is why I'm very bullish on creators, right, is for what it's worth. Like, I think people will build communities. The story medium, sure, you'll make movies. It'll be cheap to make mo…”