Apr 25, 2025 · 59m · more-or-less
Google & Meta Trials, AI’s Media Collapse & Elon’s Tesla Comeback · More or Less Podcast
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In this episode of More or Less, co-hosts Jessica Lessin, Sam Lessin, Brit Morin, and Dave Morin dissect landmark antitrust trials against Google and Meta, the devastating disruption of generative AI on digital media business models, and the shifting dynamics of venture capital and founder-driven valuations.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 100% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 3.3 The hosts pushing back 3.4
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 37:10 Sam rejects altruism in education and content creation
Sam flatly dismisses Dave's argument that people create content out of love for their fellow man, cynically asserting that individuals only act for clout, money, or power.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 21:34 Dave refuses Brit's alternative explanation for ad dropWhen Brit suggests digital ad drops might not stem directly from LLMs, Dave cuts in to argue that Google's AI search snippets directly cause the traffic plunge.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:33 Brit educates Sam on Hyrox mechanics and brandingBrit corrects Sam's repeated misnaming of the fitness brand as Hydrox and details the exact race structure of eight one-kilometer runs alternating with functional workout stations.
The host holds their own ▶ 12:44 Jessica grounds antitrust debate in specific legal distinctionsJessica counters Sam's dismissal of antitrust enforcement by meticulously detailing the active remedies in the DOJ search and display cases alongside Gemini's active user statistics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| More or Less Official Title and Host Introductions | 3 | 1 | 2 | 2 | The hosts catch up after spring break, joking about trial coverage and Coachella-like atmospheres at FTC hearings. Jessica explains the practical editorial dilemma of allocating reporters between simultaneous Google and Meta court dates. | |
| The Hyrox Fitness Craze as an Unfakeable Status Symbol | 4 | 5 | 3 | 3 | Sam discusses fitness competitions while repeatedly calling it Hydrox until Brit corrects him with the exact format and rules of Hyrox. Sam theorizes that physical races function as high-cost, unfakeable status filters in an era of saturated AI photo editing. | |
| Antitrust Realities: Google, Meta, and Monopolies in History | 8 | 3 | 6 | 6 | Sam dismisses federal antitrust actions against Big Tech as theatrical kangaroo courts that will be tied up in appeals forever. Jessica steps in with detailed reporting expertise, breaking down the DOJ search and ad-network remedy phases and contrasting them with Meta's FTC acquisition defense. | |
| Digital Media P&L Plunge and the Crumbling Open Web | 7 | 3 | 5 | 7 | Dave reports seeing a media company's P&L where ad revenue plunged 40 to 50 percent, attributing it to AI search overviews. Brit questions whether the decline is directly LLM-driven, prompting Dave to forcefully insist that Google's AI answers are siphoning publisher traffic. | |
| Rethinking Media: Infinite AI Entertainment Versus Trust Networks | 6 | 4 | 7 | 6 | Sam provocatively argues the entertainment economy will collapse to zero as algorithmic feeds become completely personalized, while Dave and Brit push back arguing humans intrinsically crave shared storytelling and community education. Sam rejects their optimism, asserting people are motivated primarily by clout and power. | |
| Tesla's Meme Valuation and Elon Musk's Executive Influence | 5 | 2 | 3 | 3 | The panel dissects Tesla's earnings stumble and the stock rebound following Musk's recommitment of time away from government initiatives. Sam frames Tesla as an overpriced call option on autonomous robotics sustained purely by retail investor faith and marginal buyer psychology. | |
| Sam Lessin's Venture Thesis: Zombiecorns and Fractured Capital | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Sam presents his memo outlining the splintering of venture capital into three non-interoperable tiers: early stage, late-stage private, and public markets. The segment is largely an uninterrupted exposition of his zombiecorn thesis with appreciative nods from Dave. | |
| Debating Trump's Baby Boom Proposal and Tax Incentives | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Brit introduces Donald Trump's proposals for baby boom subsidies and medals, prompting Sam to counter-propose a flat twenty percent tax cut per child. The hosts collaboratively explore the economic burden of childcare and dual-income tax brackets. | |
| Dave Morin on Being the Mountain, Not the Storm | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Dave explains the rationale behind his aphorism to be the mountain, not the storm, encouraging founders to provide steady grounding amidst market and technological turbulence. The group wraps up the episode on a calm, philosophical note. |
Statements from this episode (18)
Lessin: AI devalues photo filters, driving status seekers to unfakeable offline achievements
“Basically, the problem with AI is, is devalued filters to the point that everyone looks hot. So that's no longer a game anyone cares about. So now you need to do things that are, like, undeniable, like, that are harder to fake to prove and spend more money and…”
Brit Morin: Google and Meta dominate a $740 billion ad market
“I mean, it's literally like the global digital ad spend, Google and Meta dominate, right? And that's like a seven hundred and forty billion dollar market.”
Jessica Lessin: Gemini has 35M daily and 350M monthly active users
“Gemini has thirty-five million daily actives. I think ChatGPT has five hundred million monthlies, and actually Gemini is three hundred and fifty million monthly, so that's not that.”
Dave Morin: OpenAI publicly indicated interest in buying Google's Chrome browser
“Like I found it really interesting that open AI was first to raise their hand this morning about
You know, hey, we'll buy Chrome.”
Sam Lessin: Technology is hyper-centralizing, not decentralizing
“The internet was supposed to be in like technology. Everyone had this vision that it was going to be this decentralizing force, and it's hilariously done exactly the opposite, which is it's hyper centralizing. Like technology turns out to be hyper centralizing…”
Sam Lessin: Big tech antitrust trials will have no real impact
“I really doubt that any of this will have any real impact. What will ultimately happen is the technology winds will change, and just like United Fruit, it'll eventually kind of unravel.”
Dave Morin: A scaled digital media publisher's ad revenue plunged 50%
“The advertising side of this business is just collapsing. I mean, it literally lost 40 to 50% of its value in the last 12 months.”
Morin: OpenAI acquiring Chrome would be the worst thing for the internet
“OpenAI buying Chrome would be the literal worst thing that could happen to the internet today.”
Jessica Lessin: Publishers must build AI tools and never license proprietary data
“Publishers have to build it themselves, and in no way, shape, or form should be turning that data over.”
Sam Lessin: LLMs will collapse unless they compensate content creators
“I do think the LLMs are going to collapse into their own weight if they can't figure out how to pay people and deal them into the economy.”
Sam Lessin: Digital entertainment economy will collapse to zero value under AI
“The entertainment economy has got to go to zero, right? It's just an AI jerk off feed. It's going to be highly personalized, like whatever, like there's going to be no, there's no, there's, it's not like, I can't, I just don't imagine a world where there's any…”
Sam Lessin: OnlyFans creators face AI displacement like Uber drivers to AVs
“OnlyFans to AI corny stuff is very similar to like Uber drivers to self-driving cars.”
Sam Lessin: Tesla stock would collapse without the Elon Musk savior narrative
“If it weren't an Elon company and there wasn't a Messiah return story, like this thing would be getting fucking hammered.”
Sam Lessin: Tesla is an overpriced option on robotics and self-driving
“All Tesla is, is a very overpriced option on, like, robotic infinity self-driving robots, right?”
Brit Morin: No car on the market competes with Tesla's features
“I just don't think there's still another car on the market that can, that competes with all of the different features that Tesla offers.”
Lessin: Tech unicorns didn't die, they became no-growth zombiecorns
“Unicorns, people thought were gonna die, but they didn't die. They just became what I'm calling zombie corns. They still exist. They cut spend. They can't grow. They just exist. They're zombies.”
Lessin: Venture capital has fractured into three incompatible market tiers
“There's no longer a single venture capital market or a capital market. There's at least three that are actually distinct and not very interoperable. There's the public market. There's late stage private and there's early. And the thing about it is the valuatio…”
Sam Lessin: Exempting mothers from income tax solves childcare economics
“If you're a woman and you were working before and doing the homework, but you weren't monetized and now you're monetized and you're making a hundred K a year. But you're paying 50 in taxes. You can't even afford childcare because the net, the tax burden fucks …”