May 30, 2025 · 56m · more-or-less
#101: The Business of OnlyFans, Future of Identity, and Navigating Privacy in the AI Age · More or Less Podcast
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In this episode of the 'More or Less' podcast, co-hosts Dave Morin, Sam Lessin, Brit Morin, and Jessica Lessin debate the contrarian economics of acquiring OnlyFans, shifting venture capital vice prohibitions, and the escalating cybersecurity threats posed by AI voice cloning and biometric identity vulnerabilities.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 6.1 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 2.8 The hosts pushing back 2.9
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:55 Sam venting frustration over LP diversity questionnaires
Sam forcefully rejects LP bureaucratic compliance mandates, recounting his anger when institutions demanded sexual orientation and demographic audits of prospective founders.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 16:37 Jessica rejecting Apple's privacy defense on age checksJessica explicitly refuses to accept Apple's framing that age verification threatens privacy, pointing out Apple already allows apps access to microphones, cameras, and contacts.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:55 Sam explaining outsourced OnlyFans operationsSam educates Brit and the group on the mechanics of OnlyFans monetization, explaining how creators rely on Indonesian agencies to operate customer service chat funnels.
The host holds their own ▶ 24:29 Dave explaining the systemic risk of the Coinbase breachDave demonstrates technical domain expertise by laying out exactly how an overseas customer support center was socially engineered to exfiltrate physical identity documents and user credentials.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| More or Less Podcast Title Sequence and Theme Song | 4 | 2 | 3 | 3 | The co-hosts kick off the episode joking about audience retention and Sam Lessin exploring an acquisition of OnlyFans. Dave playfully questions if Sam could ever work in tech again, to which Sam counters that prudish VC attitudes create deep valuation discounts. | |
| AI Chat Automation and OnlyFans Creator Economics | 6 | 4 | 3 | 2 | Sam deconstructs the OnlyFans business model, disputing the popular thesis that fully synthetic AI girlfriends will replace human creators. Brit and Dave learn how creators outsource direct-message monetisation to offshore customer support teams using pre-shot candid photo banks. | |
| Venture Capital Vice Clauses and Shifting LP Standards | 7 | 2 | 4 | 3 | The hosts discuss how shifting LP morals govern venture capital investment mandates. Dave illustrates how defense tech shifted from forbidden vice to mainstream mandate due to financial returns, while Sam vents about non-profit endowment LPs attempting to mandate founder demographic audits. | |
| Juul's Paradox, Gambling Boundaries, and Religious Stock Indexes | 6 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Dave explains how Juul's founders originally intended harm reduction before market outcomes diverged, while Brit raises ambiguities around prediction markets like Polymarket. Sam surprises the group by explaining how the Halal S&P 500 index outperforms standard benchmarks by stripping out interest-bearing banks. | |
| Texas OS-Level Age Verification and Apple's Privacy Dilemma | 7 | 3 | 4 | 4 | Discussing Texas legislation mandating OS-level age verification, Jessica and Sam argue Apple's privacy defense is hypocritical given that apps routinely request camera and microphone permissions. Dave pushes back moderately, stating operating systems and social platforms alike share blame for dark patterns. | |
| Sam Altman's Worldcoin Orb and Facebook's Lost Identity Vision | 7 | 3 | 3 | 2 | Brit outlines Sam Altman's Tools for Humanity and the Worldcoin Orb iris-scanning initiative. Dave and Sam draw upon their early experiences building identity systems at Facebook to explain why algorithmic entertainment feeds inevitably compromised trusted identity infrastructure. | |
| The Coinbase Breach, Voice AI Threats, and State Biometrics | 8 | 5 | 3 | 4 | Dave details Coinbase's offshore call-centre social engineering breach and the lack of corporate transparency. Sam shares his own close call with voice AI phishing, before Jessica quickly interjects to correct Sam when he mixes up Otto von Bismarck with Ludwig van Beethoven. | |
| Phishing Scares, Wrench Attacks, and the TBPN Media Playbook | 8 | 3 | 4 | 4 | Jessica describes being targeted by an authentic-sounding Google security imposter and choosing to memorise complex passwords, prompting Sam to warn her of physical extortion threats known as three-dollar wrench attacks. Jessica then articulates why The Information profiled TBPN's high-frequency daily video-clip strategy. | |
| Viral Media Saturation, OnlyFans Burnout, and Verification Failures | 5 | 2 | 3 | 4 | The panel discusses creator burnout and always-on content streaming. Sam recounts repeatedly failing identity verification when attempting to open a personal and Slow Ventures account on OnlyFans, leading to humorous ribbing from Brit and skepticism from Jessica regarding platform diversification. | |
| Apple's Secret Satellite Ambitions and Operating System Rebranding | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | Jessica summarises The Information's report on Apple's shelved home satellite project Project Eagle and their tense negotiations with Elon Musk's Starlink. Brit then breaks the news of Apple switching to year-based OS nomenclature, prompting jokes about Apple's lack of preparedness for the year 2100. | |
| CPG Unicorns: Hailey Bieber's Rhode, Protein Bars, and Magic Mind | 5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Brit highlights major funding rounds and liquidity events across consumer packaged goods, including Hailey Bieber's Rhode sale to e.l.f. for one billion dollars and David's Protein Bars raising 75 million. The co-hosts joke about celebrity billion-dollar benchmarks and supplement routines. | |
| Lyon's Podcast Project, Sneaky Sasquatch M&A, and Episode Wrap | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Jessica and Sam discuss their second-grader's school podcast project and his prescient obsession with the indie mobile game Sneaky Sasquatch right before Apple acquired the studio. The episode winds down with family reflections and warm closing banter. |
Statements from this episode (25)
Sam Lessin Has Held Conversations About Acquiring OnlyFans
“I mean, I've had several conversations. I'd love to get in the direction. I think there's several steps to anything actually happening, at least in my corner, unfortunately, but my God, is it tantalizing?”
Sam Lessin: OnlyFans Is Up for Sale
“Nonetheless, OnlyFans, the story is up for sale and there's some really interesting stuff about it.”
Lessin: Generative AI Will Benefit OnlyFans Rather Than Disrupt It
“The other thing is people are short only fans because they have AI Google Gaga glasses on and they're like, this is going away because it's all wrong. Like that completely misunderstands. It's like literally the opposite. Like AI is amazing for only fans.”
Sam Lessin: Human-in-the-loop AI will dominate pure synthetic AI girlfriends
“It's a plausible future, but I think what's much more likely to happen is that, you know, you have human loop AI where you have real humans, real brands at the top, right? This would be the only fans creators. And then all the AI in tech is basically gives you…”
Lessin: Outsourced Offshore Direct Messaging Drives OnlyFans Creator Revenue
“Where they actually make all their money and all the direct messaging is done by companies, right? And firms and chop shops in like Indonesia, right?”
Dave Morin: Offline Capital Removed Its LP Defense Tech Restrictions
“A lot of people had defense tech El pack clauses. Right. That were very real. We had them. We don't have them anymore, not because we wanted to make a change, but because there was this one LP we had had very serious treaty.”
Lessin: Tax-Free Endowments Compound Faster And Become VC Rule Setters
“If you have a bunch of entities that don't pay taxes, they compound faster than everyone else. If they compound faster than everyone else, over time, they eat the asset base, then they become like the rule setters in some degree.”
Morin: Slow Ventures evaluated and passed on Juul cannabis vaporizer spinoff
“Juul spun out a cannabis related vaporizer that we looked at it slow. Didn't end up doing it. The deal didn't work out.”
Lessin: The Halal S&P 500 slightly outperforms the standard S&P 500
“And here's the reality is that the S and P 500 halal addition slightly outperforms the actual S and P. Cause it ends up overweight, like medicine and media and tech, right? Which actually outperforms.”
Morin: Texas passed a law requiring OS-level age verification
“Texas, you know, passed a law this week requiring age verification at the operating system level”
Sam Lessin: OS is the obvious place for age enforcement, not apps
“Obviously the OS is the place to do this enforcement. If you care about it, it's one of those things. I've always found it fascinating that Apple and the community was able to like, put the blank, put the finger on Facebook or Google or Snapchat or whatever, w…”
Morin: Parental controls on major platforms are rife with dark patterns
“The fact that, like, these parental controls are all rife with dark patterns to me is, like, an actual crime, and that you should be able to actually control these things and protect kids from them, but most of them you cannot.”
Lessin: Apple only opposes OS-level age verification because it hurts business
“There's also no reason to fight against this other than it will hurt their business.”
Lessin: Sam Altman Sells Worldcoin as a Fix for His Fake Content
“Well, same moment, I think is thematically correct and just annoying, but like, I think it's like, it's one of those things where you're like, okay, I'm a simultaneously going to massively accelerate the problem of fake things on the internet. And then also at…”
Sam Lessin: The internet pulls everything toward entertainment over identity
“One is between like engagement and the, on the engagement side, just for pure entertainment, you don't care what's real, right? Versus truth and information where the network and who's saying things and sources really matter. And it just turns out the internet…”
Morin: Coinbase Offshore Customer Center Socially Engineered to Expose Customer Data
“Coinbase was hacked, not digitally. They were hacked through social engineering. One of their customer service centers abroad outside the United States was socially engineered, meaning people figured out how to convince the people that work in that Customer se…”
Morin: US Officials Downloaded Founder's Phone to Scan for Anti-Trump Sentiment
“You and I both know that we had a founder Who's from Australia that went to renew his visa and had to plug his phone into a American computer with the I don't know which department, I guess it would be the state department. His phone, all the content in his ph…”
Brit Morin: College Tech Hiring Down Over 50% Since 2022
“It's down less than half from 20, 22, which is when that picked up from the pandemic. This is specifically for tech jobs.”
Morin: Society Will Grow Desensitized as AI Porn Proliferates Online
“I think we're going to get desensitized, especially with AI porn of all of us going on the internet soon.”
Lessin: Apple Scrapped Satellite Internet Project to Protect Carrier Relations
“Our new, but was previously at the information reporter, Aaron Tilly, and one of our reporters out of Hong Kong, Wayne Ma, published this really interesting in-depth piece about Apple's ambitions in satellite internet, including a lot of details about Project …”
Lessin: Musk gave Apple a 72-hour deadline on Starlink proposal
“Also, some amazing detail about their conversations with Elon Musk and SpaceX over using Starlink, where Apparently must gave them a 72 hour deadline to accept or reject his proposal.”
Morin: Apple will rebrand all operating systems based on calendar year
“Basically, they are now going to rebrand all of their operating systems based on the year it is today.”
Morin: Hailey Bieber's Rhode sold to e.l.f. Cosmetics for $1B
“So Hailey Bieber's company just sold today to elf cosmetics for a billion dollars.”