Jul 4, 2025 · 55m · more-or-less
#106: AI Researchers Earning More Than Cristiano Ronaldo · More or Less Podcast
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this Fourth of July holiday episode of More or Less, the co-hosts examine the aggressive talent wars driving AI researcher compensation past elite sports contracts, critique broken digital media monetization models, and dissect high-profile cultural spectacles.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 5.4 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 2.6 The hosts pushing back 3.4
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 30:08 Brit argues talent raids are stealing and demands hiring coordination
Brit rejects the market-driven premise of aggressive hiring, insisting that companies should coordinate hiring windows and limit poaching, which sparks sharp resistance from her co-hosts.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 30:22 Jessica shuts down hiring collusion by citing FTC antitrust actionJessica immediately and flatly refuses Brit's proposal for company hiring pacts, pointing out that Google and Apple previously attempted collusion and were firmly halted by federal antitrust regulators.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 30:20 Jessica and Sam educate Brit on antitrust law regarding hiring pactsWhen Brit advocates for sports-league style trade limits in tech, Jessica and Sam quickly correct her, explaining that non-poach agreements are illegal collusion under FTC antitrust regulations.
The host holds their own ▶ 12:36 Jessica reveals the antitrust motive behind Google OfferwallJessica demonstrates authoritative industry reporting expertise by cutting through superficial product analysis to reveal that Google's Offerwall is driven by its antitrust legal defense to placate furious publishers.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Opening Titles and "More or Less" Theme Song | 4 | 2 | 3 | 3 | The co-hosts banter over social media dynamics across Threads and X. Sam humorously analyzes the stark contrast in community reactions to his provocative posts, while Dave and Jessica lightly push back on the definition of going viral. | |
| Silicon Valley's Spiritual Turn: Tech Bro Religion and Peter Thiel | 4 | 2 | 2 | 3 | The conversation touches on tech founders adopting theological frameworks, Peter Thiel's religious influences, and Jessica's switch to matcha. The hosts banter collaboratively about wellness and tech culture. | |
| Lessin Media Exit: The San Francisco Standard Acquires Charter | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Jessica shares news of an investment exit as SF Standard acquires Charter, providing insider context on Mike Moritz's media strategy in San Francisco. Sam teases her for promotional shilling while Dave asks clarifying questions. | |
| Google's Offerwall and the Publisher Monetization Dilemma | 7 | 3 | 3 | 4 | Brit introduces Google's Offerwall micropayment tool for publishers, leading Jessica to explain that it originates from antitrust appease-the-publishers teams rather than product innovation. Sam pitches a satirical $100M raffle alternative. | |
| Analog Backlash: Blue Books, Vanity Checks, and Brinks Trucks | 5 | 2 | 2 | 3 | The group explores retro physical trends such as exam blue books and joke about oversized vanity checks and Brinks trucks. Sam and Dave debate post-traffic publishing dynamics and paywall economics. | |
| Hands-On AI Development: From Gemini to Cursor Mastery | 8 | 4 | 3 | 5 | A substantive discussion on AI dev environments covers Gemini, Cursor, and Claude Code, followed by Anthropic's reported $4B ARR. Sam challenges Dave's view on token metering, arguing that usage-based pricing sits low on the business model hierarchy. | |
| Meta's OpenAI Poaching Raid and AI Researcher Trading Cards | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | The panel discusses Meta aggressively recruiting top OpenAI researchers, drawing analogies to Pokémon collectors and sports trade reports. Dave and Sam brainstorm AI researcher trading cards displaying token throughput and revenue generated. | |
| Moneyball for AI: Free Agency and Misfit Toys | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | Brit suggests tech companies should enforce sports-style trade windows and coordinated limits on poaching, labeling talent raids stealing. Sam and Jessica immediately and forcefully push back, citing antitrust history and the illegality of tech anti-poaching cartels. | |
| Meta's Superintelligence Playbook, Top Gun Tropes, and Venice Wedding | 6 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Sam constructs an elaborate sports and Top Gun movie arc for Meta's newly assembled AI division. The conversation shifts to Sam Altman attending Jeff Bezos's Venice wedding during Meta's poaching raid, with Sam arguing Altman should have canceled staff vacations for wartime lockdown. | |
| The New Rock Stars: AI Researchers Out-Earning Cristiano Ronaldo | 5 | 2 | 2 | 3 | The hosts review reports of AI researcher compensation surpassing sports superstars like Cristiano Ronaldo. Jessica notes that Chinese-educated researchers command legitimate celebrity status, reframing the dynamic as the ultimate revenge of the nerds. | |
| Reviewing the F1 Movie and Modern Theatrical Box Office | 5 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Dave reviews Apple's F1 film starring Brad Pitt, praising its cinematic execution. Sam challenges the box office hype by observing that a $144M global opening illustrates how theatrical revenues have contracted compared to historic Hollywood blockbusters. | |
| Bezos Wedding Reactions and Celebrity Relationship Gossip | 4 | 2 | 2 | 3 | The group critiques media coverage of Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez's Venice wedding. Sam argues the event awkwardly landed in the middle ground between intimate and an all-out public celebration for Venice, while Brit shares celebrity gossip. | |
| Katy Perry's De Soi and Celebrity CPG Boom | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Jessica introduces Katy Perry's non-alcoholic beverage brand De Soi following her interview with Perry. She educates the group on Perry's broader business footprint, pointing out her massive footwear enterprise. | |
| Mini Fridge Innovations and Sam's Pool House Renovation | 3 | 1 | 1 | 2 | The co-hosts close with light banter on boutique mini-fridges, including Smeg and Rocco models, while Sam laments a contractor delay on his pool house beverage station. |
Statements from this episode (27)
Sam Lessin: Social network culture accelerates as users reinforce tone
“There's, like, a tone set by the network and, like, the community, and then whatever that tone is, it will just accelerate, right? Because people feed on each other, right?”
Lessin: Universal "God content" across Threads, X, and Instagram is impossible
“If you can find a piece of content of performance art that is loved on threads and acts and Instagram, that is, like, a God content piece. Like, I'm not sure it's doable, right? Because the networks are so specific.”
Brit Morin: AI will eventually identify universal viral content across platforms
“It will at some point. Then you can just use all of that as data.”
Dave Morin: Peter Thiel uses Christian frameworks to explain the world
“Yeah, but Peter Thiel has always used Christian frameworks to explain the world.”
Lessin: Peter Thiel's religious worldview is spreading through Silicon Valley acolytes
“Yes, he's very religious, but it's catching on because he has acolytes.”
Lessin: Michael Moritz uses The San Francisco Standard to reshape local politics
“Well, it, it's all related to his effort to transform San Francisco politics, yes. I mean, the paper itself is not partisan, and I think actually breaks, from what I can tell, just a ton of news about City Hall and Daniel Lurie, and so they have very good repo…”
Morin: Google launched Offerwall to help publishers monetize lost search traffic
“Google, in an attempt to make publishers more happy because all of their traffic has dropped, especially with Gemini now rolling out on top of search results, launched a new product this week to help publishers monetize. Did you see this? It's called Offerwall…”
Morin: Google Offerwall will make media sites much more terrible
“Oh my god, this is going to make all the media sites so much more terrible.”
Lessin: Top editors-in-chief are panicking over Google AI traffic drops
“You know, my publisher group chats, half the content is, what's happening to your Google traffic today? Has there been an algo change? These are editors in chief of the largest publications of the world.”
Lessin: Google Ads are The Information's best subscription acquisition channel
“Google, I will say Google's ads are wonderful for the information. Like, I will go on record saying that they are the best performing driving quality subs.”
Lessin: Outlook for Publishers Dependent on Google Traffic Will Get Far Worse
“But yeah, if you put all your eggs in the Google traffic basket, the game's been over forever, and it's about to get a lot worse.”
Sam Lessin: Media Should Paywall High and Reinvest in Google Ads
“What you do is you keep behind a paywall, you charge a lot, you use that money to buy some ads from Google, it works.”
Sam Lessin: Google Will Not Save Publishers with Ad Micropayments
“The idea that Google is going to balance the equation with micropayments on ads, that's not going to happen.”
Sam Lessin is highly pessimistic about AI business models
“I'm not at all an optimist from a business model perspective”
Sam Lessin: AI coding tool Cursor loses money on premium users
“Even though they lose money, I believe, on everyone, certainly me, you have to pay them for, like, the premium, premium.”
Lessin: Anthropic has surpassed $4 billion in annual recurring revenue
“We reported yesterday the information that Anthropic is at more than four billion in ARR”
Morin: Claude Code suits architects while Cursor suits visual coders
“If you know what you're doing with architecture, Claude Code is an amazing tool. If you don't know what you're doing with architecture, you need a more visual interface like cursor.”
Sam Lessin: Usage-based pricing is worse than recurring flat fees
“Usage-based pricing is generally bad. Like, it's like, if you think about the hierarchy of business models, like paying for what you use, like, you know, pay for what you eat is like just a worse business model than pay me no matter what.”
Lessin: AI startups generating huge efficiencies must buy their own customers
“If you have technology or a stack that makes your business, some business twice as efficient, like you can't go to the CFO and be like, look, I'm going to make you twice as efficient, but you're going to give me half the upside. No CFO will do that deal. Right…”
Brit Morin: Tech companies should use sports-style trading windows for hiring
“I think we should be coordinating, and I think there should be term limits, and there should be, you know, you're in your trading window.”
Sam Lessin wants a "Moneyball" recruiting strategy for AI startup teams
“If someone, I hate AI companies from an investing standpoint, but if someone wants to pitch me on the Billy Bean, Of AI recruiting to build the team of misfit toys. I'm like really into that.”
Jessica Lessin: Apple is not yet in the frontier AI league
“Apple is not in this league yet. They're doing cool things in AI in different areas, but, like, they're not-”
Lessin: OpenAI issued an internal panic memo over Meta poaching talent
“Then this memo came out of OpenAI saying, like, our house has been raided. We have to reconsider all these things. I also hear they have a week-long vacation this week, pre-planned at OpenAI.”
Dave Morin: AI researchers should be paid more than Cristiano Ronaldo
“But like, it's great. It's how it should be.”