Oct 25, 2024 · 1h 5m · more-or-less
#70: Is Apple’s Vision Out of Focus? · More or Less Podcast
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of More or Less, co-hosts Jessica Lessin, Sam Lessin, Brit Morin, and Dave Morin dissect Silicon Valley's shifting landscape, analyzing Apple's hardware and AI roadmaps, venture capital anxiety, and the severe ethical perils of conversational AI. Balancing insider industry analysis with lighthearted personal banter, the panel debates tech culture, executive leadership, and the future of ambient computing.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 6.1 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 3.3 The hosts pushing back 3.9
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 34:47 Sam attacks Apple's missed sales targets
Sam forcefully rejects Dave's defense of the Vision Pro, citing repeated downward forecast revisions from 3 million down to 450,000 units to insist it was an undeniable flop.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 12:36 Dave rejects Jessica's plan to brawl on TwitterDave flatly refuses Jessica's suggestion that she engage in public Twitter warfare with VCs, quoting institutional LP data proving high-tweeting VCs fail to deliver returns.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 45:20 Dave explains on-device notification parsingDave educates Jessica and Brit on the actual mechanics of Apple Intelligence, clarifying that summarization occurs at the OS notification layer rather than inside closed third-party apps.
The host holds their own ▶ 14:35 Jessica defends Blackwell defect investigationJessica dismantles Nvidia's public pushback by demonstrating that The Information's reporting on the Blackwell chip flaw was fully accurate despite Jensen Huang's initial fake news claims.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| "More or Less" Title Sequence and Branding | 3 | 1 | 2 | 2 | Casual introductory banter focused on Brit dyeing her hair blonde and Sam buying a red Mazda Miata. Dave teases Sam for not getting a Porsche, and Sam defends his choice as anti-boring South Bay culture. | |
| Are the VCs Okay? The Stripe-Bridge Acquisition Drama | 8 | 3 | 3 | 5 | Jessica breaks down The Information's reporting on Stripe acquiring Bridge and the backlash from Sequoia's Shaun Maguire over investor credits. Dave pushes back against Jessica engaging in public Twitter spats, advising her to stay above the fray while citing LP data on tweeting VCs. | |
| Nvidia vs. TSMC and the Rising Standards of Tech Journalism | 8 | 2 | 2 | 4 | Jessica explains the tension between Nvidia and TSMC over the Blackwell chip flaws and addresses Jensen Huang calling reporting fake news before conceding the defect. She articulates how rising ecosystem sophistication has raised the competence bar for tech journalists. | |
| New York Magazine's 50 Media Elites and Candid Portraits | 5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Discussion of New York Magazine's 50 Media Elites feature, which included Jessica. The group reviews the candid iPhone portraits taken mid-sentence, with Sam arguing that looking deliberately unpolished is the new aesthetic trend. | |
| Vision Pro Production Cut: Developer Kit or Consumer Flop? | 7 | 4 | 7 | 7 | Sharp debate over Vision Pro production cuts. Dave insists the device was intended strictly as an enterprise developer kit, but Sam vigorously attacks this framing as an excuse for an expensive flop backed by a Tim Cook PR push. | |
| Future of AR: Budget Headsets and Cambrian Computing | 6 | 4 | 7 | 6 | Sam cites Apple's downward sales revisions from 3 million to 450,000 units to insist the product flopped, while Dave contends hardware flops are the root of innovation for a three-trillion-dollar firm. Dave highlights Apple's broader Cambrian computing ecosystem. | |
| Apple Intelligence Hands-On: Practical Features and Siri Expectations | 7 | 6 | 2 | 3 | Dave provides a direct user assessment of Apple Intelligence beta features, educating the panel on OS-level notification summarization for iMessage and WhatsApp. The group explores whether low-key utility is more effective than sweeping chatbot demos. | |
| Reimagining Apple: Hypothetical CEO Strategy and Culture Shift | 6 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Brit and Dave prompt Sam to outline his hypothetical strategy if he were CEO of Apple. Sam advocates replacing Cook with a visionary leader and adopting public iterative development, but Dave pushes back that long hardware cycles make pure public iteration impractical. | |
| Succession Speculation: John Ternus and Apple’s Ambient Hardware Future | 5 | 2 | 2 | 3 | The panel assesses John Ternus's rising profile as Tim Cook's potential successor. Dave elaborates on ambient hardware strategy, arguing Apple should deploy complementary ambient devices across home and wearables rather than matching Meta head-to-head. | |
| The Battle for the Body: Biometric Wearables and Health Tech | 5 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Sam shares his experience with the Abbott Lingo continuous glucose monitor and Viome gut microbiome testing. Dave confesses his hesitation over the sensor needle, leading into a discussion on consumer health wearables and diagnostics. | |
| Tragic Impact of Conversational AI: Youth Mental Health and Platforms | 7 | 3 | 3 | 4 | Brit introduces the New York Times report on a Florida teenager's suicide linked to Character.AI. The group analyzes emerging corporate liability for conversational AI, the need for identity verification, and parallels to algorithmic content feeds like TikTok. |
Statements from this episode (22)
Sam Lessin: Porsches Are Boring Because Everyone in Silicon Valley Owns One
“Porches. They're beautiful cars. Everyone has a Porsche. Very boring. It's just not a thing. It's just like, it's so boring.”
Dave Morin: LP Data Shows Top-Tweeting VCs Lack Top Returns
“We were meeting with a very large LP today who summarily said to this we have a lot of data on this and we can definitively say that the venture capitalists that are tweeting the most are not the ones producing the DPI.”
Jessica Lessin: Nvidia's Rapid Chip Development Strains TSMC Relationship
“And NVIDIA, the king of this generation, of this AI race, is in a constant race to build, design, ship new chips at very rapid pace. And it is straining their relationship with TSMC.”
Jessica Lessin: Substack Commentators Raised the Standard for Tech Journalists
“I do think that the bar of expertise and sophistication that journalists have to meet in their coverage is getting higher and higher, and that's like a good thing. Like, people often Talk about, like, the impact of the substack economy and all these expert opi…”
Sam Lessin: There are probably only five real media elites
“I don't, I feel like there's probably five media elites.”
Sam Lessin: Looking Bad in Photos Is Culture's Reaction to Filters
“No, I actually think this is very on trend, which is now that with face filters and we're looking good, the new good is to look Bad. Right? Like that's like, that's just how culture works. Right? So this is why like all the kids on Instagram now have shitty ph…”
Jessica Lessin: Apple Is Suspending Production of Vision Pro Version One
“Also, according to the information, we've known the Vision Pro hasn't exactly been a rocket ship, but it does appear like they are suspending production on version one.”
Dave Morin: Apple Vision Pro Was Never Meant to Be a Consumer Device
“The point of this product was to get it in the hands of software developers so that they can see what's possible with you know, this new operating system, this entirely new context. It wasn't meant ever to be. A consumer device.”
Sam Lessin: Meta Will Not Release Its Orion AR Glasses Anytime Soon
“By all accounts, I've heard Orion's amazing, but they're not going to release it any time. Like, there's no, Device coming. It's going to be a long time on the burn, and I think it's a totally different story in terms of what the progression is there.”
Brit Morin: Apple Targets 4M–8M Units for Cheaper N109 Headset
“They're working on this like internal code named N one Oh nine. It's the cheaper version likely the smaller version, the more Orion esque version of the vision pro. And they're expecting to produce somewhere between like four and eight million units of that is…”
Morin: Ray-Ban Meta is the breakout tech product of 2024
“Like, they're definitely the breakout product. I, I'll keep saying this. I think it's the breakout tech product of the year, and it's starting to show a future where what is on your face is actually a really serious platform, and I think that that's the thing …”
Sam Lessin: Apple Cut Vision Pro Sales Targets From 3M to 450K
“Apple initially targeted sales of three million Vision Pro units. Then they revised the number to 900,000. Then they revised the number to 800,000, and it looks like they sold 450,000.”
Sam Lessin: 2024 Makes It Hard Not to Be Bullish on Meta
“It's hard to not say that this is a year that Apple, to be less bullish on Apple, not more bullish on Apple, and shockingly more bullish on Mark and what's going on at Meta in terms of being like, oh my God, did these guys actually start producing hardware”
Dave Morin: Large models don't drive Apple Intelligence's current experience
“The large models have almost nothing to do with the experience that they're delivering on Apple Intelligence right now.”
Dave Morin: Apple Intelligence Will Mark One Billion First-Time AI Users
“Like, and it will be actually, I think, the first time a billion people use AI in a, you know, tiny way.”
Sam Lessin: Strategically, Apple has never been weaker for the next generation
“It's kind of hard to foot the fact that the stock's never been higher, but I actually think strategically they've never been weaker in terms of what this next generation looks like.”
Sam Lessin: Apple Needs Tim Cook to Retire for a Visionary Leader
“You probably need Tim Cook to like nicely retire into supply chain management and promote someone who's a real visionary leader who has a vision for the company that isn't, you know, more efficiency.”
Dave Morin: Computing future belongs to small devices organized in symphonies
“I think that small devices. Organized in symphonies, like is like the thing that is going to be the future and that you're going to have to be in all these different places.”
Lessin: A smart toilet startup venture deal is currently in flight
“There's a smart toilet deal in flight right now with friends leading.”
Lessin: AI chatbots shift liability from internet users to bot makers
“The thing that's interesting is there's no different than social media, which is people say shitty things to each other on the internet. And like the interesting is liability moving, like how it moves, right? Because all of a sudden it's not the liability with…”
Jessica Lessin: Tech cannot dismiss AI harms with trade-off arguments
“I personally think we're at a point where we can't just take the argument that there are pluses and minuses to all of this. It may be the reality, but some of the minuses are devastating.”
Morin: AI chatbots and TikTok's algorithm are fundamentally the same mechanism
“Actually, most people, I still don't think associate tech talk with being one of the first AI, you know products at scale that did this first. Now it's just much more direct. It's like, you're talking to the algorithm rather than the algorithm serving up conte…”