Sep 19, 2025 · 55m · more-or-less
#117 TikTok’s New Owner and Hiring a US CEO? · More or Less Podcast
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In this episode of the More or Less podcast, hosts Dave Morin, Brit Morin, Sam Lessin, and Jessica Lessin analyze major tech developments—including the proposed US restructuring of TikTok and Meta's upcoming AR smart glasses—while debating startup etiquette schools, algorithmic fatigue, and physical print media.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 2.8 The hosts pushing back 2.8
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 25:12 Dave Calls Out Sam's Etiquette School
Dave bluntly attacks the premise of Sam's etiquette curriculum, arguing that it is hypocritical and offensive for Sam to instruct founders on manners he regularly violates online.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 14:45 Dave Refuses the Data Security FramingDave directly rejects the narrative that moving data to Oracle servers secures TikTok, arguing that the licensed Chinese algorithm retains complete control over what users see.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:38 Brit Highlights the Algorithm Licensing CatchBrit intervenes to point out the crucial nuance Jessica omitted: the US entity would merely license the algorithm rather than own it, reframing the concessions extracted in the deal.
The host holds their own ▶ 19:16 Jessica Breaks Down TikTok US CEO RequirementsJessica leverages her reporting background to outline the exact corporate profile needed for the role, citing chronic monetization turnover and figurehead PR responsibilities.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| TITV Catch-Up, Lower Thirds, and Injectable Peptides | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | The hosts open with light banter about Dave's appearance on TITV and Ty Haney's crypto loyalty platform. Sam jokes about injecting peptides live on air, leading to casual teasing about wellness trends. | |
| Alcatraz Island Redevelopment and Horseshoe Politics | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | Dave proposes bulldozing Alcatraz to build an upscale island resort, which Jessica challenges by pointing out the lack of plumbing and infrastructure. Sam introduces a political horseshoe theory equating prisons to low-income housing. | |
| Algorithmic Echo Chambers, Security Paranoia, and South Park | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Sam describes the stark divide between his social media feed and dinner party conversations following a high-profile shooting. Jessica nuances his observation by noting mixed reactions across media channels. | |
| TikTok US Deal Analysis and CEO Candidate Criteria | 6 | 4 | 4 | 4 | Jessica outlines the contours of the proposed TikTok US restructuring while Brit highlights the critical detail that the algorithm is merely licensed. Dave and Sam dismiss the political maneuver as theater, with Dave stressing that hosting data on US servers does not change algorithmic influence. | |
| Algorithmic Fatigue and Brainstorming Human-Curated Apps | 5 | 3 | 6 | 5 | Sam pitches his Slow Ventures Etiquette Finishing School for startup founders, sparking direct resistance from Dave, who calls it offensive and hypocritical given Sam's online persona. Brit counters with her Street Smart School, prompting a spirited debate over East Coast versus West Coast tech norms. | |
| Meta AR Glasses: Hands-On Impressions and Key Features | 5 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Sam shares hands-on details of Meta's upcoming AR glasses, focusing on the wristband control interface and live speech transcription. The group collaboratively evaluates the practical utility of heads-up text display. | |
| Social Etiquette, Parenting, and Intimacy with Smart Glasses | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | Jessica expresses concern over smart glasses degrading authentic social interaction and parenting presence. The hosts debate the etiquette of constant device wear, culminating in jokes about AR use in private moments. | |
| ChatGPT Teen Safety Guardrails and Voice Mode Dynamics | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | The panel explores ChatGPT's safety guardrails, personality settings, and voice mode. Jessica describes her instinctual unease when her child began anthropomorphizing the conversational voice assistant. | |
| Tech IPO Rebound Headlines and Federal Reserve Rate Cuts | 5 | 2 | 4 | 4 | After briefly touching on rate cuts and IPO buzz, the discussion shifts to Sam's print Wall Street Journal subscription. Sam insists Jessica should launch an ultra-premium print version of The Information, but Jessica pushes back citing prohibitive unit economics and her business team's refusal. |
Statements from this episode (14)
Dave Morin: Ty Haney's Platform TYB Has Millions of Users
“They've got millions of users, a lot of stuff going on.”
Sam Lessin: TikTok structurally remains a huge national security hole
“From a national security and, like, identity standpoint, all this type of stuff, I think it's still, like, structurally a ridiculous risk, right? Like, you know, basically, like, it's never made, it's, it is a huge national security hole.”
Dave Morin: TikTok US Data Localization Meaningless Without Algorithmic Control
“Like, it doesn't matter if the data is on his servers. What matters is what algorithm is choosing what to show you next.”
Dave Morin: Andreessen Horowitz Is No Longer a Venture Capital Firm
“They don't have, they're not a venture firm anymore.”
Jessica Lessin: TikTok is significantly under-monetized in the US
“Because for all of its rocket ship growth, TikTok is way under monetized, especially in the U.S.”
Lessin: Slow Ventures received hundreds of applications for founder etiquette school
“We have an event space... And we've had like hundreds of applications to it.”
Sam Lessin: Garry Tan Warned YC Founders Against Slow's Etiquette School
“Gary Tan, who runs YC, is a response to this, which is, PSA, do not attend SLO's Etiquette School”
Sam Lessin: Founders Earn Demerits For Leaving Coffee Cups Behind
“When you're at a meeting, if you don't take your coffee cup after you've had coffee and offer to return it to the sink or the kitchen and you leave it there, guess what? That's a demerit.”
Sam Lessin: Meta's New AR Glasses Feature Wristband Input and HUD
“It has a heads-up display that works, so you can, like, use apps inside the glasses, you know, you can you can text and, like, write messages using the screen and, like, the wristband in the headset.”
Lessin: Picking up phones in front of kids signals they are uninteresting
“We're basically, every time we pick up our phones in front of our kids, we're like training them to think that our phone is more interesting than they are.”
Dave Morin: Kids will access harmful AI models regardless of guardrails
“Kids are gonna get access to this stuff. Just like, you know, everyone, our generation, parents tried, tried, tried to keep pouring away from them, but that didn't work. Right? Like the kids are gonna get the bad stuff no matter what we do.”
Sam Lessin: ChatGPT Is Useful But Not Worth Half a Trillion Dollars
“Not worth half a trillion dollars, but useful.”