Nov 7, 2025 · 56m · more-or-less
Apple Chooses Gemini, Sequoia's Leadership Shake-up, and Meme Coins · More or Less Podcast
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Hosts Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, and Sam Lessin examine major shifts across the tech landscape, including Silicon Valley's cultural evolution toward executive etiquette, Apple's AI partnership with Google Gemini, and the leadership succession at Sequoia Capital. Through sharp industry analysis and personal anecdotes, the episode highlights the maturing standards of tech governance, emerging AI monetization models, and wild speculative market dynamics.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 2.0 The hosts pushing back 2.6
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:54 Sam rejects Jessica's characterization of Sam Altman
When Jessica cites Sam Altman as an example of someone who dresses casually without consequence, Sam directly refutes her framing by arguing Altman actually practices meticulous, context-appropriate etiquette.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 32:24 Jessica challenges reporting narratives around VC leadershipJessica pushes back against simplistic journalistic interpretations of partner exits, explaining that outside narratives almost universally misrepresent private, two-person executive dynamics.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 17:30 Dave outlines Apple's edge vs cloud foundation model trade-offDave delivers a detailed strategic analysis comparing Apple's foundation model deal to its original Google search pact, explaining Apple's deliberate decision to cap capex at 10-20% and focus strictly on on-device silicon.
The host holds their own ▶ 26:12 Jessica debunks venture capitalist myths about tech scoopsJessica dispels the VC trope that startups deliberately leak financial numbers to The Information for PR, leveraging her direct experience as a media founder and operator to explain how investor forecasting actually works.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| More or Less Title Sequence | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | The hosts engage in casual opening banter, ribbing Sam about his tardiness and attire while noting board meeting dynamics. There is no substantive technical debate or schooling taking place. | |
| Sam's Slow Ventures Etiquette School Debrief | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Sam shares his insights from hosting Slow Ventures' etiquette school, explaining why tech founders must outgrow the arrogant jeans-and-t-shirt trope. Jessica and Dave playfully probe the practical takeaways while generally affirming his perspective. | |
| Silicon Valley Reputation, WTF Conference, and Gifting Norms | 4 | 2 | 2 | 3 | Jessica reflects on discussions from her WTF conference regarding Silicon Valley's public trust issues, prompting Sam to defend Sam Altman's calculated etiquette. The group banters good-naturedly about counter-protests and executive gift-giving customs. | |
| Apple Selects Gemini for Siri and the Edge Computing Debate | 7 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Dave and Sam dig into Apple's decision to partner with Google Gemini for Siri, comparing it to historical deals like Safari search. Dave articulates Apple's device edge silicon strategy while Sam highlights the capital efficiency of offloading compute to user hardware. | |
| Anthropic's Leaked Financials and the Coding Market | 6 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Jessica showcases The Information's scoop on Anthropic's financial projections, explaining the nuances of financial leaks and investor briefings. The hosts concur that coding remains the dominant commercial driver of LLM usage. | |
| Sequoia Capital Leadership Shake-up and Partnership Realities | 7 | 3 | 3 | 4 | The panel discusses Roelof Botha stepping aside as Sequoia's senior steward, detailing the scale of the Sequoia Heritage fund. Jessica offers an insider operator critique of how technology reporting routinely misunderstands executive departures and relational partner dynamics. | |
| The Jelly Meme Coin Surge and Crypto Market Leverage | 5 | 3 | 2 | 3 | Sam explains how his improvised Jelly meme coin reached a $400 million market cap, while Jessica questions whether the valuation is driven purely by belief. Dave and Sam delve into perpetual futures and systemic leverage amplifying retail crypto volatility. | |
| Waymo Robotaxis Invade the Mid-Peninsula | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | Jessica observes the rapid surge of Waymos operating down El Camino before Sam unveils his AI-generated 'No Kings and Queens of Jackson Hole' protest t-shirt. The hosts affectionately mock the shirt's missing-legged skier graphic as classic AI slop. |
Statements from this episode (19)
Sam Lessin says the era of badly behaved tech founders is over
“And I think it's just more important, you know, the era of the young technologist with ripped jeans and a t-shirt that doesn't understand and disobeys all the rules of a local community. But it doesn't matter because they're kind of the interesting new novelty…”
Sam Lessin calls YC's product-market fit mantra an antiquated story
“You know, the YC story of all you need is product market fit and move on. I think it's just like a very antiquated story.”
Sam Lessin says Sam Altman has great etiquette despite other criticisms
“I actually argue that for all of my gripes with Sam Altman, he actually has great etiquette.”
Jessica Lessin says Apple and Google partnered for Gemini to power Siri
“Google and Apple are doing a Siri deal, so Siri is going to be powered by Gemini, essentially, until, until Apple, quote, figures it out, but it, there seems to be this pattern here of Apple realizing Google is, is pretty good at this stuff, and they'll be pre…”
Dave Morin says Apple spends only 10-20% of operating cash on AI
“They've shown only an appetite to invest something like 10, maybe 20% of their operating cash flow in AI infrastructure. They're not willing to spend 70, 80% like Meta or Amazon or Microsoft.”
Dave Morin says on-device edge AI remains far off for advanced workloads
“Like we are a ways off from developers being able to use these things and high velocity, important workloads. And they certainly can't do really advanced things with photo, video, these types of things, even large context windows. Like we're just, we're way of…”
Jessica Lessin denies AI startups leak financial numbers to The Information
“I will say they don't give them to us. Like people always come up to me. They're like, oh, doing open AI's dirty work for them by publishing their numbers. I'm like, yeah, not really. But so VCs assume that these companies like beg us to do this. I can, I will…”
Sam Lessin claims enterprise AI adoption is entirely driven by software coding
“It's coding. It's all code.”
Sam Lessin doubts Sequoia leadership changes will cause a massive firm shakeup
“I kind of doubt that, like, there's, you're going to see some, like, massive shakeup in what Sequoia is or what they do in Heritage.”
Sam Lessin notes most Sequoia assets sit in Heritage, not venture funds
“The venture funds are still the venture funds, but like most of the assets are not in the venture funds. They're in heritage.”
Jessica Lessin says journalists usually get executive personnel matters pretty wrong
“I think journalists get personnel related matters. Pretty wrong most of the time, and I think it's because at the end of the day, these decisions and dynamics are like two people in a room, and even the closest people right outside that room could have their t…”
Sam Lessin calls venture capitalists awful managers because they never manage anyone
“And like the irony is a sort of venture capitalists generally not manage anyone. So they're terrible at management. Like venture capitalists are awful managers, but in general, unless like They were twenty-year operators and they kind of like opted out of it a…”
Sam Lessin discloses he is the largest investor in social app Jelly
“There is an app called Jelly started by Ikram, who is one of the two co-founders of Venmo. I am its largest investor. I think, you know, certainly, I think I'm the only institutional investor. I'm certainly the largest investor.”
Sam Lessin says he launched the Jelly Jelly meme coin and held
“Which I launched, and the application has adopted, and it's driving, and the app is cool, it's got a lot going on, but it literally, like, is traded very heavily, and it's gone far beyond any expectation. Well, it's kind of, it's a wild thing about crypto, whi…”
Sam Lessin notes his Jelly Jelly meme coin hit $400M market cap
“And I was just wild to watch last week ago to a four hundred million dollar market cap.”
Sam Lessin says there is a deep buyer market for $100K Bitcoin
“I don't know. I think there's a lot of buyers at Bitcoin, a hundred K. There's a pretty deep market there.”
Dave Morin claims San Francisco parents only let their children ride Waymos
“Everybody in the city only allows their children to use Waymo.”