Apr 3, 2026 · 47m · more-or-less

OpenAI's $852 Billion Valuation Makes Zero Sense (ClawCon Tokyo, Anthropic's Leak, Goodbye Internet)

Sam Lessin · 17m spoken Dave Morin · 15m spoken Jessica Lessin · 5m spoken Brit Morin · 4m spoken
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The 'More or Less' hosts explore the technological breakthroughs of ClawCon Tokyo while critically analyzing the massive market valuations of AI giants and the security risks posed by autonomous agents.

Statements from this episode (25)

Opinion
Brit Morin: Japan's AI Scene Is 1-2 Months Behind the US
“It's like a month or two behind, you know, like obviously super hyped about Open Claw and all, you know, personal AI.”
Brit Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 3:15
Opinion
Brit Morin: Japanese Sentiment Toward AI Is Far More Positive Than US
“And like everyone's perspective on AI is quite positive here versus in the U S it's like so negative, you know, AI is less popular than ice in the U S like all kinds of terrible things. And in Japan, they're just like, oh yeah, like it seems it's fine. Like ob…”
Brit Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 4:14
Disclosure
Dave Morin: Offline Partners with Nintendo Family's Artificial Life Institute
“We have very close relationship with the Nintendo family. They're one of our partners at offline, and they have a project here in Kyoto called the Artificial Life Institute.”
Dave Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 5:24
Opinion
Sam Lessin: Japan Welcomes AI Because of Population Decline
“Well, to be clear, the Japanese are also much more okay with this because they're running out of people.”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 6:15
Opinion
Morin: Anthropic Leaks Are Marketing Strategy Rather Than Real Leaks
“This sure looks like a marketing strategy to me, not a leak strategy.”
Dave Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 7:58
Opinion
Sam Lessin: Anthropic's Claude Code Source Leak Was a Legitimate Mistake
“Well, no, the cloud code thing I think is like a legit fuck up, right? Like you don't leak your source code.”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 8:24
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Lessin: AI will drastically worsen open-source supply chain security vulnerabilities
“I do think that what's happening with AI, this is just going to get so much worse because all of a sudden everyone dangerously skips permissions.”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 9:59
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Sam Lessin: The 'move fast' AI crowd will beat security-focused competitors
“I think the as fast as possible crowd will generally win because they'll be able to get more cool stuff done faster, but it will create a huge security. It's a huge problem.”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 12:32
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Sam Lessin: Huge AI premiums will be charged for security and privacy
“I think all the money is not gonna be made on who can run the most tokens fastest or build the coolest shit, because everyone will go infinitely fast on that. You'll be able to charge an enormous premium for security and privacy, but the problem is, is like, t…”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 13:00
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Sam Lessin: Autonomous Agents Importing Unknown Code Will Trigger Trust Collapse
“The second cataclysm of AI is gonna be, you're just gonna, like, have all these agents running around doing crazy shit, and including things they have no idea what they're doing, and they'll check the APIs, be like, yeah, that thing works, and it sort of will,…”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 13:42
Disclosure
Dave Morin: Core AI Agent Is Locked Down From Reading Personal Email
“I do not allow my email For example, to be read by my core agent, like my core agent is super locked down, you know, has really tight security around it. But then I have other agents that do specific things that I want to get done.”
Dave Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 20:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sam Lessin: Autonomous Bot Accidentally Sent 30 Invitations Instead of Drafting Them
“I asked by CRM, I was like, hey, we're doing this creator bot school. Go find the 20 to 30 most important people that creators would want to meet with in New York, I'm sorry, in San Francisco, and invite them if they want to stop by, and like, you know, it pul…”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 23:02
Insight
Morin: Full-stack AI code generation breaks traditional internet cybersecurity
“A lot of the way that we built software, which was like, we're going to build all these little shims in between, and there's going to be all this open source software and I'm going to use yours and you're going to use mine and it's going to make my life easier…”
Dave Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 24:57
Insight
Lessin: AI guardrails fail because agents trivially set up unrestricted compute
“This idea that like any one service can lock down, like what it will and won't do is ridiculous because as long as anything else on the internet will do it, like it'll just happen. You just ask the thing to like, do you do a much more complicated setup, which …”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 26:55
Disclosure
Sam Lessin: Disclosed a $100K Seed Investment Into AssemblyAI
“Assembly AI, which by the way, we received investors in. I put a hundred K into their first round, but they're crushing it.”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 29:24
Opinion
Brit Morin: Mainstream software will keep stickiness because everyday users won't build tools
“I actually disagree with you because I think that there are going to be a lot of services and pieces of software that maintain their stickiness because normies just want what they want and they don't want to change and they just like want it to be good enough.”
Brit Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 30:19
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Dave Morin: In 1-2 years, users will generate software on demand
“The through line on this is that people are going to be able to request the software that they want in like one to two years from now, and it will just materialize onto the internet.”
Dave Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 31:39
Opinion
Sam Lessin: Bullish on Software, But Negative on Software Businesses
“That's why I'm so bullish on software and so negative on software businesses, because I'm just like, I don't like, just, these are just tokens.”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 32:05
Assertion Supported
Jessica Lessin: OpenAI raised $3B from retail investors in latest round
“OpenAI's Monster Fundraising, complete with three billion dollars in raises from retail investors.”
Jessica Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 32:12
Assertion Supported
Dave Morin: Synthetic venture funds are trading on Robinhood
“You've got these like crazy new synthetic venture funds that are being traded on Robinhood.”
Dave Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 33:00
Opinion
Sam Lessin: OpenAI's $850B Valuation Is Ridiculous Amid Commodity Competition
“I mean, like they're just, I just, this is like a ridiculous, this is just ridiculous. I mean, it's like, whatever, it doesn't like, if you want to buy 20 cents of infrastructure per dollar in a thing with like increasing competition where it turns out the sto…”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 33:31
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Sam Lessin: AI models are indefensible commodities won by cheap energy
“It's like whoever has cheap energy eventually wins as a commodity business with no defensibility.”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 34:12
Disclosure
Dave Morin: Firm Is Going Maximum Long on Local Inference
“Like, we're going maximum deep and taking a maximum long position in local inference and open claw because we just believe.”
Dave Morin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 38:06
Insight
Lessin: AI Compute Has Zero Vendor Lock-In for Developers
“And like the reality is the fact that I can just sit there and in three commands while I'm doing other stuff, do that is mind blowing, but it means there's no lock in on anything. I'm just going to sit there and price and quality optimize. Right. Like there's …”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 38:59
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Lessin: Tech PMs and Engineers Disrupted Themselves; Building Shifts to Domain Experts
“I actually think that Silicon Valley, and at least, you know, let's call it your average PM slash engineer in Silicon Valley, hilariously did just completely disrupt themselves. You no longer have a stranglehold on anything in building, and the building is goi…”
Sam Lessin Apr 3, 2026 ▶ 41:27
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