The Exchanges

Q For sure. So Troy, what do you think? I mean, if there's a product like this, you know, you want to get a celebrity involved because the idea is that they're gonna, you know, help sales. What's the approach?

A The way I would look at it is who would be my ideal person slash partner for this, and because this is a very specific category, it has to be directly related to being part of that person's lifestyle, essentially. So one, you know, that's probably a narrow list, and being able to sort of, from that list, kind of look at Does the brand values align? Is there any sort of reputational risk? How many other partnerships do they, do they have and how have they performed in those other partnerships? And what type of commitment will they give to the brand? Because there's certain things that happen sort of in front of the camera, but a lot of times there's more important things that happen behind the camera. You know, so in terms of, are they going to meet with the head of sales for your largest distributor or show up at certain events that might not be publicized, but like, how can you get the most out of that partnership and create mutual value? You know, John Legend's a really good example of somebody who is a great partner for a brand, not, and I'm not saying your specific brand. I'm just saying where John is a guy who behind the scenes, John can meet with any president, CEO of any company and are clearly articulate the vision of the company because he's done an incredible amount of diligence before even the first meeting. And so by the time he says, yes, he's knowledgeable and a r…

AI assessment note: “The way I would look at it is who would be my ideal person”

Q your books. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This, Resilience Edition. Troy Carter has built an amazing career in the music industry, and in the early days, he relied on live performances and world tours to grow his clients' fan base. But with concerts canceled for the year and fans stuck at home, I asked Troy, what will the music industry look like in the next year or so?

A The good thing with the music industry is Our product on the record side is mostly digital. So, you know, we had the luxury of not having to rely on manufacturing plants or trucking and all of those things to get our product, you know, from here to there. And if we were still in the CD business, we'd be really screwed, you know, if people had to actually go to a store to buy the product. So I think on that side, we're fine. On the touring side, it's catastrophic, and the reality is we probably won't see this look normal until twenty-twenty-two, in my opinion. You know, just because I, I think you have, one, still the social distancing, you think about economically whether people are going to be able to afford tickets, but on a positive side, I think it's going to accelerate technology in terms of finding better options around live streaming.

AI assessment note: “we probably won't see this look normal until twenty-twenty-two, in my opinion.”

Q How old are you, by the way, at the time?

A I was, I was in my late teens, early twenties, during sort of that transition period. Right. And I was working at Will and James' production company, and I was having the time of my life, and, and very hard-headed, thought I knew everything, and I didn't have a car. I thought it was gonna be like Philly, where you just can take the train everywhere, and in LA, everything's so separated, and I was taking this car service, From the office to visit this girl probably two or three times a week or whatever, but I would pay the bill at the, every two weeks when I got my check. I would pay like the office manager and say, hey, the bill's gonna come in. I got you covered or whatever, and one time, uh, I think I pissed the office manager off over something, and she told James that I had been using this car service to visit this girl, and James came in and fired me and sent me back to Philly.

AI assessment note: “I was in my late teens, early twenties”

Q So in the, in the midst of this, this like really tough period, what happened? How did you, how did you turn the corner?

A Wow. Um, a good buddy, uh, Vincent Herbert, who's like this, uh, very jubilant guy. Uh, Vince is like a character, but he's super talented. You know, he was a child prodigy, He was like, 16 or 17 producing records for Celine Dion and, you know, um, Whitney Houston and, and Tony Braxton, and we were the same age, and every time he was in LA, he would pop by and just, you know, we would just talk and, and catch up, and he had called me and said, you know, Carter, I got this girl that I saw in MySpace that I want you to check out, and, um, and he brought her in, And she played her music, which was great, and was Lady Gaga.

AI assessment note: “he had called me and said... I got this girl... was Lady Gaga.”

Q Did you guys, you and, and Lady Gaga, did you ever have moments where you just had a quiet moment, and you would just look at each other and say, how did this happen? This is amazing.

A Oh, yeah. You know, me, me, me, Gaga, and Vince, we're like a trifecta, and we would always have those moments, like, oh, my God. Can you believe? Wow. You know, you look out at a crowd, Or, you know, I remember seeing her play, um, Sting's Ring Force event in New York, where, you know, Sting will bring out, you know, legend after legend, you know, Elton John, Bono, um, Stevie Wonder, you know, just all of the greats, and her being the only young artist there playing with those guys. Seeing her hold her own with those guys, and them just take her under her wing, you know, under their wings. So, you know, it's just all of those moments are just, you know, very, very special moments.

AI assessment note: “we would always have those moments, like, oh, my God. Can you believe?”

Q I want to ask, we're actually getting some questions and this is from Andrea. She's asking, um, She says, it doesn't feel right to me to be all over social media with anything other than Black Lives Matter content, or even to release nonpolitical music right now. What are your thoughts on releasing music in the coming weeks?

A Music is a healer. You know, I think at the end of the day, we still need things that are gonna, uh, make us smile, bring people together. I think there's gonna be a lot of politically and socially driven music that's born out of this moment. But I do think where, where I do agree is we can't walk away from the subject. We can't pretend that this moment didn't, didn't happen. I don't think people should be tone deaf in this moment and not address it. But the way I feel, like last night I got sick of watching the news and I, I just needed some Netflix for a second just to take my mind off of it. So, so hopefully people are still releasing content where we can step away And sort of refresh and have a moment where it just doesn't break us down completely.

AI assessment note: “hopefully people are still releasing content where we can step away And sort of refresh”

Q Um, this is a question from Will Plays. Do you think that the music industry is, is suffering right now? I mean, you can't physically promote music. You can't perform live. I mean, is the industry taking a hit right now?

A Funny enough, I think it's taken a hit in two ways, right? So I think both crisis is showing the vulnerability of the music business. You know, I think with the pandemic, you know, we talked about the fragility of the touring business, promotion business, even down to going out to visit radio stations and promote the records and doing late night shows and all of that stuff. You know, you, you sort of see where the fragility is. So that's COVID related. What we're seeing with the sort of racial crisis that's going on, people talk about how the NFL only has, you know, three or four black coaches and no African Americans in the front office. The music industry is much, much worse than the NFL. What black music has contributed financially to the music industry, What black culture has contributed, you know, financially to the music industry, and when you look at the ratio of actual black executives in the music industry, it's appalling. You actually, believe it or not, have white people that are the heads of black music with a title at some of these companies. You know, it's, and literally you have qualified black executives in the company But actual white people with a title, the head of black music is like, it's crazy. And so like the fact that the music industry that prides itself on being progressive and providing opportunities still has these structures in place. And I think th…

AI assessment note: “Funny enough, I think it's taken a hit in two ways, right?”

Q I want to ask, we're actually getting some questions, and this is from Andrea. She's asking, um, she says, it doesn't feel right to me to be all over social media with anything other than Black Lives Matter content, or even to release non-political music right now. What are your thoughts on releasing music in the coming weeks?

A Music is a healer. You know, I think at the end of the day, we still need things that are gonna, ah, make us smile, bring people together. I think there's gonna be a lot of politically and socially driven music that's born out of this moment. But I do think where, where I do agree is we can't walk away from the subject. We can't pretend that this moment didn't, didn't happen. I don't think people should be tone deaf in this moment and not address it. But the way I feel, like last night I got sick of watching the news and I, I just needed some Netflix for a second just to take my mind off of it. So, so hopefully people are still releasing content where we can step away And sort of refresh and have a moment where it just doesn't break us down completely.

AI assessment note: “hopefully people are still releasing content where we can step away And sort of refresh”

Q and the minds of so many people watching, um, is focused on This really, um, just overwhelming conversation, the events that are happening, but, um, we're also in the midst of economic crisis and a, and a global health crisis. How is the overall situation affecting the production of music, recording music, recording albums, collaborations, um, obviously live concerts too, but, but how is it affecting the industry right now?

A The good thing with the music industry, our product on the record side is mostly digital. So, you know, we had the luxury of not having to rely on manufacturing plants or trucking and all of those things to get our product, you know, from here to there. And if we were still in the CD business, we'd be really screwed, you know, if people had to actually go to a store to buy the product. So I think on that side, we're fine. On the touring side, it's catastrophic, and the reality is we probably won't see this look normal until twenty-twenty-two, in my opinion. You know, just because I, I think you have, one, still the social distancing, you think about economically whether people are going to be able to afford tickets, but on a positive side, I think it's going to accelerate technology in terms of finding better options around live streaming.

AI assessment note: “On the touring side, it's catastrophic, and the reality is we probably won't see this look normal”

Q Um, this is a question from Will Plays. Do you think that the music industry is, is suffering right now? I mean, you can't physically promote music. You can't perform live. I mean, is the industry taking a hit right now?

A Funny enough, I think it's taken a hit in two ways, right? So I think both crisis is showing the vulnerability of the music business. You know, I think with the pandemic, you know, we talked about the fragility of the touring business, promotion business, even down to going out to visit radio stations and promote the records and doing late night shows and all of that stuff, you know, you, you sort of see where the fragility is. So that's COVID related. What we're seeing with the sort of racial crisis that's going on, people talk about how the NFL only has, you know, three or four black coaches and no African Americans in the front office. The music industry is much, much worse than the NFL. What black music has contributed financially to the music industry, What black culture has contributed, you know, financially to the music industry, and when you look at the ratio of actual black executives in the music industry, it's appalling. You actually, believe it or not, have white people that are the heads of black music with a title at some of these companies. You know, it's, and literally you have qualified black executives in the company, but actual white people with a title, the head of black music. It's like, it's crazy. And so, like the fact that the music industry that prides itself on being progressive and providing opportunities still has these structures in place. And I thi…

AI assessment note: “Funny enough, I think it's taken a hit in two ways, right?”

Q You know, you, you never went to college. You don't have an MBA. You don't have an advanced degree. There have been, I think, two Harvard Business School case studies about you and Lady Gaga, which is a great irony, but do you ever feel like you didn't belong, that you weren't, I don't know, that like you were around people who had credentials and made you feel intimidated?

A Yeah, um, at times, right, you know, and, um, I had a fifth grade teacher named Miss Moore, and I was always the littlest guy in the class, you know, uh, you take the school pictures or you get in line to go to lunch in the hallway, I was always first in line because I was the smallest guy. So, um, but she used to call me the big guy, and she made me feel like I was six foot five, and, like, she'd get, it was something that she did Um, psychologically, that, that, like, really, really made me feel, not only did I belong, but that I was special. So, you know, sometimes I'll go into rooms where it's, this person has a lot more experience than me, they're much smarter than I am, but I, I know what I know, and I think I bring a very, I bring a unique point of view to the table, you know, just with With different experiences, and I'm, I'm confident in that, in that point of view.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, um, at times, right, you know”

Q How did you know what to do? Like, I mean, negotiating is a really, really, really hard work, right? And, and, and you were so inexperienced at that time. Like, how did you know what to negotiate and how to negotiate?

A You know, I think a lot of it is, you know, is, is West Philly Spidey senses. You know, so when you have to Um, negotiate for survival, and you have to know how to read rooms, and you have to know who the bad guys in the rooms are, who has the gun in their pocket, who's just, who's just gonna brandish it, and who's gonna, who's gonna actually pull the trigger, so I think that's just a natural instinct that comes with coming from where, where I come from, so being able to take that tool into negotiations on, on reading people's People in reading rooms and reading circumstances, I think is very, very important, and then also knowing what's important for that person on the other side of the table. And what's important for the client.

AI assessment note: “I think a lot of it is, you know, is West Philly Spidey senses.”

Q series last summer. And for that conversation, we had planned to talk about how the pandemic had disrupted the music industry, and you'll hear we did. But this was back in June, at the height of the protests that were sweeping the country after the death of George Floyd. So of course, Troy and I talked a lot about that, too. How are you talking to your kids about it?

A You know what, my, my seventeen-year-old daughter, she was actually at the protest in LA. For me, as scary as it is, you know, to have her at one of these protests, To be honest with you, it's just as scary to be Black in America, but not wanting to stop her from expressing her feelings and exercising her rights as an American citizen. And, you know, on the phone with my twenty-four-year-old son, as you know, you got protesters going throughout his, the neighborhood that he lives, um, just making sure that he's physically safe. So, you know, I think, where I think is an eye-opening moment for a lot of people in America, just to be honest, this is like everyday life for a lot of African Americans in our country, and, um, you know, recently I was on a trip probably five months ago with my YPO forum, which is, you know, Young Presidents Organization, and we did a retreat to Mexico City, and it's 10 of us, We get out of our SUV to pull up to the hotel. All of the guys go in the back to get their bags, and since the moment I go in the back to get my bag, I get attacked by security, like physically attacked by security.

AI assessment note: “seventeen-year-old daughter, she was actually at the protest... on the phone with my twenty-four-year-old son”

Q You feel like you're still potentially just one, you know, bad luck day away from collapse?

A No, you know, it's not even money as much as it is, you know, it's, it's funny because, like, I'll talk to some of my friends who, you know, are successful entrepreneurs or business owners and, But grew up, you know, middle class or whatever, right? So, it's a different set of worries when it comes to running a business, or being an entrepreneur, or even risk-taking. So, risk-taking, in my mind, almost, you know, because it was existential for so long, it's like, that feeling still is like this undercurrent that still, that still lives there, but also, you I love how you call it. What did you call it? I grew up with financial insecurity. We were broke. I was like, that's a really nice way of putting it. No, we were, we were broke, and, um, we had to choose between Having to pay a, a light bill, or our gas getting cut off, or so some, some days we wouldn't have hot water, so we would have to go to my grandmother's house, or whatever, or I would have to go, um, it's like, I still hate the smell of kerosene, because we, I, I used to have to go out, and with a shopping cart and a kerosene can, get kerosene from the gas station, and that's how we heated our house, with kerosene, and you boil your water on top of the kerosene heater, And you put it in the sink, and that's what you washed up with in the mornings. So this isn't like, 19 twenties, or, you know, anything like that, or wh…

AI assessment note: “No, you know, it's not even money as much as it is”