The Exchanges

Q the app, I mean, this is a time where there were probably only like 10,000 apps in the app store total. So discovery was just much easier. And was it just discovered? I mean, was it pretty soon after you launched it? Did people start to find it because there weren't many, first of all, gay hookup apps, if any, and probably even not even that many dating apps yet?

A There was a few other apps, but certainly if you would type in gay into the app store, you wouldn't come up with much. You know, what we decided to do was to have parties, uh, and we would go to, uh, local gay bars in L.A. and, you know, throw Grindr parties. June was, you know, Pride Month. I remember we went to different Prides, and I remember going to San Francisco Pride. And what we would do is we would hand out, uh, little business cards, you know, download Grindr. And the reaction was very, very positive. Anytime someone at that time heard that there was an app for gay people, they were really excited. It was a free app. And so we got probably about a thousand downloads a day.

AI assessment note: “what we decided to do was to have parties... and hand out little business cards”

Q When did you start to feel like, you know, like maybe, when did you start to feel different from other boys? I mean, you mentioned the sports thing, but did you get teased as a kid?

A I did get bullied. Um, you know, luckily I had a, you know, great family and my cousins, and, and so that was really who I connected with as a child. I didn't quite connect as much with people at school. I, I knew I had these feelings, but I didn't quite understand them, and I, I I vividly remember once I was, uh, part of the swim team in, in high school, and I was teased, and, uh, someone called me a faggot. And then I said, no, I'm not, I'm, I'm not gay, I'm not gay. And for the first time, I, I said to myself, wait a minute, What if I am? Maybe I am. And so, you know, it took me several years to realize that, that I was gay. One of the things that was very helpful for me was online. So these were the days of CompuServe and AOL chat rooms. And so I was able to connect with people, uh, online.

AI assessment note: “I did get bullied... vividly remember once I was, uh, part of the swim team”

Q Did you design what you wanted it to look like, or did you, like, what kind of direction did you give this coder in Denmark?

A So the other thing I did at this point was ask a lot of my friends for help. I said, you know, I needed a name, I needed, ah, you know, I needed a logo, I needed to design this app, I needed, there's a lot that needed to happen. And I reached out to my friend Scott Llewellyn, and he was a graphic designer, ah, and he, um, you know, we were friends, he had a full-time job. I asked him to help me, and he, he was excited by the opportunity, and, and the three of us worked on this app. And I remember, you know, one day looking at my photo album on my phone, And I said, hey, wouldn't it be great if these were the guys around me? And so that was really the inspiration for the user interface of Grindr, and it still remains today, is it's a grid of people. The first person would be me, and then the next profile to the right would be the closest person, ah, nearby. And then the next person to their right would be, ah, a little bit further away. And that's how we would display all these profiles of the people Uh, nearby.

AI assessment note: “that was really the inspiration for the user interface of Grindr... it's a grid of people.”

Q So was this all you were doing? Was it like your entire focus, or were there other things you were doing? Were you like doing a day job, for example?

A I didn't have a day job. We were just working on this. There was a lot to be done. To me, this was a race, a race to launch first, because I, you know, thought to myself, you know, if I have this idea, I'm sure there's lots of other people who have this idea. I don't remember quite, because, you know, the iPhone was announced in June. I don't, I don't quite know when the App Store and, you know, the distribution started, but it was starting already, uh, and people were starting to, to get these new iPhones, and so I realized it was just a matter of time before, you know, someone else would do this, and so, but the challenge was, you know, Morton and Scott were both, had full-time jobs, and that made things to, you know, go very slowly.

AI assessment note: “I didn't have a day job. We were just working on this.”

Q And do you remember feeling stressed out at that time, at, at the pace of things?

A Yeah, I was, I was very frustrated with the pace, uh, you know, because Morton was working part-time, and I, you know, or actually, you know, he had a full-time job, and understandably not his first priority, and I wasn't really paying him that much, so I wasn't in the position to be very demanding. But, fortunately, there were no other apps, and I remember I would check often to see, you know, I would type in gay into the app store to see what would come up, and I remember at the time, also, before we launched, I reached out to some of our competitors. So I said to myself, how am I gonna get this, and how am I gonna distribute this? How am I gonna get people to know about this?

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I was, I was very frustrated with the pace”

Q hundred, two hundred million dollars of value. That's a pretty great outcome. And, you know, you're walking away from the stress of that business too. So I guess my question is, who cares, right? Like, why, why would, did it matter to you? And I'm not, I'm not saying who cares, but, but why, why did it matter to you that it was contentious and you, you had to leave?

A This, you know, I think starting a business is a very emotional thing, and I think, ah, it is something that I dedicated myself to, and, ah, I had many lonely nights, I had many difficult days and nights, ah, you know, it took all of me. And, um, I was helping my community, helping them meet, ah, helping them, you know, find great sex, finding Love, uh, you know, there are people who, uh, have gotten married because they found someone on Grindr, and so, such a tremendous impact, and, you know, something that I love more than anything is matchmaking, and so, combination of all those things, I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me because I made a lot of money, but kind of ironically, a few months before I, uh, I finally left, um, I met a guy in New York, Um, and we started dating, and, um, Brendan and I are now, you know, married. And interestingly, I've asked him, and I said, you know, he said, you know, I don't think I would have taken you very seriously if you were still the CEO of Grindr. I don't know that this relationship would have worked. And I think for myself also, I, I think I was able to prioritize him and my, you know, relationships in general, um, and that created the space for me to Uh, fall in love and, uh, and get married.

AI assessment note: “starting a business is a very emotional thing, and I think, ah, it is something”