The Exchanges

Q So I'm trying to, trying to figure out how you, like, made a transition into music. I mean, did you, did you just think, uh, I'm, I'm not going to do sports. I'm going to get into the music business?

A Yeah. Yeah. Um, I was, I was 20 or 19, probably at the time when I started trying to figure it out. I knew when I stopped playing, I wanted to do something I loved and was passionate about. I think that's all I knew. So I, I kind of asked myself, you know, what else do I love as much as that sport? And the only thing that I could answer with was music. So I said, okay, that, that's what I'm going to do. I didn't know where I'd start. I didn't know anybody. I didn't have any relationships. So I would literally go to Barnes and Noble and, and Kind of read books on, on the music business and, and try and figure it out. And I, and I chose management because I thought it would be the least barrier to entry. And I was like, okay, if I find talent and start working with them, that would be my way into the business.

AI assessment note: “what else do I love as much as that sport? And the only thing... was music.”

Q So, so this is 2012. It's still gonna be, like, another two years before you guys release your first studio record, but between that point and, and the release of the studio record, you still are releasing mixtapes. Were you guys selling that, or were you just, again, still kind of building the brand and releasing the music for free?

A We were still putting it out for free. Um, that tour was a massive eye-opener for us. It was what Logic and I had Thought we were building. It proved to us, and I think everybody else, that it was, it, it was something very real. Bringing out three, 400 kids, um, in different cities across the country, from putting out free albums, and free mixtapes, and selling a lot of merch, and, and, um, it was very, it became very real at that time, and we wanted to keep that going, um, because again, we were building leverage, and his, and building his brand, so our thing was, we wanted to make a splash when it was his, Is time for debut album. We wanted to have a really big first week sales. So we, we decided to continue building and putting out free products.

AI assessment note: “We were still putting it out for free.”

Q know, she built a following and then she introduced the brand of, of the products, the product line. And then we've, we've done episodes with like the founders of Instagram and how that was kind of a, A slow build. Like, how did you, how did people discover Logic's music? I mean, you just, you can't just put it out on the internet and hope people will find it, right?

A No, it was, it was, it was much more thoughtful, and there was a strategy behind everything. I think, what I did a lot is I watched, right? I, I would watch the way other artists would break, and I would try and reverse engineer that, and, and figure out, ok, this is really interesting. Uh, YouTube is an amazing tool at the time for being discovered, because the way their algorithm worked, and their suggested video algorithm, if you remember, and it's still there today, I think it's much different now on the right hand side, if you'd be watching a certain video, a music video, it would suggest another artist, that's something that we took advantage of. I sat down with Logic, we would go through the project, and I'd say, ok, let's identify four or five songs that we think are singles. And we'd shoot no budget, low budget, point and shoot music videos for those, because that was, that was a way for us to, to get more attention to those songs, and as social media started to come out, paying attention to that, I remember the very early days of Snapchat, um, was something that we took advantage of, and Logic was on there, and building, you know, a big audience on, on that platform, and then Instagram played a role, and we tried to be, First movers and on these platforms. Quick Logic did a great job at, you know, speaking directly to his audience.

AI assessment note: “YouTube is an amazing tool at the time for being discovered”

Q So, so this is 2012. It's still gonna be, like, another two years before you guys release your first studio record, but between that point and, and the release of the studio record, you still are releasing mixtapes. Were you guys selling that, or were you just, again, still kind of building the brand and releasing the music for free?

A We were still putting it out for free. Um, that tour was a massive eye-opener for us. It was what Logic and I had Thought we were building. It proved to us, and I think everybody else, that it was, it, it was something very real. Bringing out three, 400 kids, um, in different cities across the country, from putting out free albums, and free mixtapes, and selling a lot of merch, and, and, um, it was very, it became very real at that time, and we wanted to keep that going, um, because again, we were building leverage, and his, and building his brand, so our thing was, we wanted to make a splash when it was his, Is time for debut album. We wanted to have a really big first week sales, so we, we decided to continue building and putting out free products.

AI assessment note: “We were still putting it out for free.”

Q know, she built a following, and then she introduced the brand of, of the products, the product line, and then we've, we've done episodes with, like, the founders of Instagram, and how that was kind of a, A slow build. Like, how did you, how did people discover Logic's music? I mean, you just, you can't just put it out on the internet and hope people will find it, right?

A No, it was, it was, it was much more thoughtful, and there was a strategy behind everything. I think, I, what I did a lot is I watched, right? I, I would watch the way other artists would break, and I would try and reverse engineer that, and, and figure out, ok, this is really interesting, uh, YouTube is, An amazing tool at the time for being discovered because the way their algorithm worked and their suggested video algorithm, if you remember, and it's still there today. I think it's much different now on the right hand side. If you'd be watching a certain video, a music video would suggest another artist. That's something that we took advantage of. I sat down with Logic. We would go through the project and I'd say, okay, let's identify four or five songs that we think are singles and we'd shoot no budget, low budget, Point and shoot music videos for those, because that was a, that was a way for us to, to get more attention to those songs, and as social media started to come out, paying attention to that, I remember the very early days of Snapchat, um, was something that we took advantage of, and Logic was on there, and building, you know, a big audience on, on that platform, and then Instagram played a role, and we tried to be First Movers and on these platforms. Quick Logic did a great job at, you know, speaking directly to his audience.

AI assessment note: “YouTube is, An amazing tool at the time for being discovered”

Q the show, and of course, I'm going to ask both of you, and first you, Chris, when you think about the journey that you've taken, you know, a twenty-year-old, no experience, like, pitching this guy, Logic, uh, To where you are now, like, how much of that do you attribute to just really hard work and, and intelligence and skill, and how much of that do you attribute to luck?

A I think it's probably somewhere in the middle between the both. Um, you know, I look back, you know, at my, at my life, and I think being, you know, raised by my parents played, played a large role in, in who I am as a person today, and instilling confidence in me. How serendipity played such a role in me discovering who Logic was. I told the story, if I hadn't been sitting at my computer at that very moment, To click that YouTube link and see the video of Logic, I don't think we'd be sitting here today. Um, but there's a large, large portion of that where, you know, it, it, it just takes an, an almost unimaginable amount of hard work, um, and perseverance because of every roadblock and every door that's closed to figure out a way to get through it. Um, I think it, it lives somewhere in the middle. I think my journey, I would, I would probably have one foot in, um, Hard work and intelligence and grind and hustle and one foot in pure and simple luck.

AI assessment note: “I think it's probably somewhere in the middle between the both.”

Q Chris, how did you, how did you, Deal with, with logic's anxiety and, and exhaustion and, and, you know, that what happened in Pittsburgh, like that, that wasn't just a, I mean, obviously that was an expression of things that were probably building up over a long time. How did you cope with it and what did you do?

A I mean, I immediately, um, you, you kind of put on the, the friend hat, right? Because that's what makes this relationship and, and specials that, again, you, you generally care about him. So for me, I, it was a lot of questions about, hey, how, how can I make you feel better? And what can I change? What can we do differently to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? And we learned a lot from it. I think both him and I on how to move forward and, and, and, Conduct the business and, and operate on a daily basis even. It, it, it kind of changed a lot of the things we did from just daily communication to what we say yes to, to what we say no to, and I think we're better for it. I think he'll, he'll say the same thing, and I think we're gonna be much more successful moving forward, and, and it's because we got through that, and it allowed us to, to grow.

AI assessment note: “I immediately, um, you, you kind of put on the, the friend hat”

Q What did you say? Like, I'm Chris, and I'm a, a manager?

A Yeah, I'm a manager, you know, can we, can we jump on the phone? Do you have, first of all, I probably asked him if he had management, because I didn't want to step on anybody's toes. Sure. Um, you have to understand, it's, you know, I'm a kid trying to get another kid to trust me with their career. I had no, I had no. Yeah, no, no experience, no resume. Uh, I think I pointed to some of, or one of the other artists I was working with at the time and said, hey, you know, I'm working with this artist, we had built this so far, you know, check it out, and I'd, I'd love to, uh, to, to be involved.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I'm a manager, you know, can we, can we jump on the phone?”

Q comes on the show, and of course, I'm going to ask both of you, and first you, Chris, when you think about the journey that you've taken, you know, a twenty-year-old, no experience, like, Pitching this guy logic to where you are now, like, how much of that do you attribute to just really hard work and intelligence and skill, and how much of that do you attribute to luck?

A I think it's probably somewhere in the middle between the both. Um, you know, I look back, you know, at my, at my life, and I think being, you know, raised by my parents played, played a large role in, in who I am as a person today, and instilling confidence in me. How serendipity played such a role in me discovering who Logic was. I told the story, if I hadn't been sitting at my computer at that very moment, To click that YouTube link and see the video of Logic, I don't think we'd be sitting here today. Um, but there's a large, large portion of that where, you know, it, it, it just takes an, an almost unimaginable amount of hard work, um, and perseverance because of every roadblock and every door that's closed to figure out a way to get through it. Um, I think it, it lives somewhere in the middle. I think my journey, I would, I would probably have one foot in Hard work, and intelligence, and grind, and hustle, and one foot in pure and simple luck.

AI assessment note: “I think it's probably somewhere in the middle between the both.”

Q But you didn't think like, let me go like, see if I get a job working for like one of these big Record labels or management companies and kind of get experience. Like, that wasn't where, what you thought you should do at first?

A I tried. Um, I, I definitely tried that route. I, I started with internships. I, I didn't graduate college yet, so I didn't really apply for jobs, but at almost every major record label, I applied for internships, and, you know, I kept getting turned down one after the other. I actually got one interview that, they actually had me come in for an interview, and I thought it went great, and ultimately, they, you know, they said, you know, sorry, this, this isn't gonna work, and I just remember, I emailed the woman, and I asked, I actually still have the email, I asked why, Um, isn't, isn't this going to work? And, and she told me I didn't have enough experience, which I just thought was really funny because I was going for an internship.

AI assessment note: “I tried. Um, I, I definitely tried that route. I, I started with internships.”

Q other entrepreneurs, it's at this point when they go out to VCs and raise money to, To, like, get the product out into the world. How are you funding this? How are you, how are you having Logic record music? And because I think at this time, you were just releasing all of his music for free, just, just putting it on the internet and letting anybody take it, right?

A Yeah, and, and what we were doing, like you said, we were building the brand. I viewed that, putting out free music, as, as investing in the brand, right? As we were building an audience and a fan base that That was becoming more and more invested, and what that means is that they would later down the road, whenever we asked for it, spend the money, meaning, oh, we're gonna put out our first, you know, project for sale, or hey, we're gonna put up a tour for the first time. Will you spend 12 dollars to come see me in San Diego? Hey, we're selling t-shirts for 20 dollars. So I, that's how I viewed it. We were essentially monetizing free music.

AI assessment note: “We were essentially monetizing free music.”

Q Yeah. So how soon after, Chris, you started working with Logic, did you say, all right, let's, we got to go on tour, and let, and, and did you go on tour?

A Yeah. I'm not sure exactly how soon, but it was, it was an intuition thing, right? Because there was no, there was no metrics at the time or data that we had that said, hey, you can sell out 30 shows across the country. It was something that we both felt, hey, I think it, it feels right, and, and I think we could probably go, go on a tour now. And how we did that, because that's an expensive thing, right? There's a lot of startup capital that you need to fund a tour. We, Ultimately signed a record deal to fund our tour because we needed the money. I think we could have waited longer if we had some money, but, um, you know, we didn't have an opportunity to, to, to wait.

AI assessment note: “I'm not sure exactly how soon, but it was, it was an intuition thing”

Q with other entrepreneurs, it's at this point when they go out to VCs and raise money To, like, get the product out into the world. How are you funding this? How are you, how are you having Logic record music? And because I think at this time, you were just releasing all of his music for free, just, just putting it on the internet and letting anybody take it, right?

A Yeah, and, and what we were doing, like you said, we were building the brand. I viewed that, putting out free music as, as investing in the brand, right? As we were building an audience and a fan base, um, That was becoming more and more invested, and what that means is that they would, later down the road, whenever we asked for it, spend the money, meaning, oh, we're gonna put out our first, you know, project for sale, or hey, we're gonna put up a tour for the first time. Will you spend 12 dollars to come see me in San Diego? Hey, we're selling t-shirts for 20 dollars. So I, that's how I viewed it. We were essentially monetizing free music.

AI assessment note: “We were essentially monetizing free music.”