Jul 16, 2018 · 51m · how-i-built-this
Steve Madden: Steve Madden
Steve Madden · 23m spoken Guy Raz · 17m spoken Chris Domino · 1m spoken LifeKit Host / Interviewee · 2s spoken
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This, footwear designer Steve Madden recounts how he built an accessible multi-billion-dollar shoe empire, navigated federal prison following the Stratton Oakmont financial scandal, and staged a triumphant creative and corporate comeback.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 40.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.9 Guest teaching 1.6 Guest disagreement 1.3 Guy pushing back 1.3
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 41:46 Madden calls out CFDA exclusion
Madden expresses unfiltered annoyance at high-fashion gatekeeping, contrasting his exclusion from the CFDA with Puff Daddy's induction.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 25:34 Raz challenges Madden on participating in shady stock tradingRaz refuses to let Madden bypass his illicit actions, directly confronting him on why a successful creative designer felt the need to execute illegal stock flips.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 42:22 Madden reframes fast fashion as a gateway drug for luxury brandsMadden schools high-end designers who accuse him of copying, explaining that his shoes create the entry pathway for customers who eventually buy high-end brands like Louboutin.
Guy holds their own ▶ 38:07 Raz cites Haim Saban on financial milestones and motivationRaz brings external perspective from his interview with media mogul Haim Saban to challenge Madden's framing of ongoing motivation and wealth accumulation.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| How I Built This Summit Announcement | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | Guy Raz provides the framing monologue outlining Steve Madden's business model, legal troubles, and impact on fast fashion. A short snippet shows Madden describing his chronic pessimism. | |
| Growing Up in Long Island and Mogul Ambitions | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Raz explores Madden's childhood in Long Island, discussing his undiagnosed ADD and early fascination with studio moguls. Madden explains his father's depression-era risk aversion. | |
| First Steps in the Shoe Business at Toulouse | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Madden describes falling into shoe retail at Toulouse at age 16 during the 1970s platform boom. He credits store owner Lance Rubin with teaching him design and retail hustle. | |
| Dropping Out of College and Working at Jildor | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Madden recounts dropping out of college, working the floor at Jildor, and reuniting with Rubin at LJ Simone wholesale to generate $40 million in revenue. Raz prompts him on his decision to venture out alone at 30. | |
| Battling Substance Abuse and Finding Sobriety | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Madden candidly discusses severe alcoholism and drug addiction during his twenties and achieving sobriety through AA before launching his brand. He explains how his first clog design unexpectedly caught on with Gen X teens. | |
| Early Hustle, Naming the Brand, and Initial Sales | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Madden walks through manufacturing in Brooklyn, selling out of sample trunks, and seizing market share vacated by dominant brands like Nine West. He also recounts briefly naming the brand Soulier before renaming it after himself. | |
| Going Public with Stratton Oakmont | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Raz introduces childhood acquaintance Danny Porush and Stratton Oakmont's boiler-room operations. Madden confirms the accuracy of the shoe presentation scene depicted in The Wolf of Wall Street. | |
| Rapid Financial Expansion and the IPO | 4 | 1 | 2 | 5 | Raz presses Madden hard on why he engaged in fraudulent stock schemes despite having a creative and rapidly growing business. Madden admits to greed, rationalizing illegal conduct, and viewing money as an addictive drug. | |
| Mid-Interview Break and Teaser | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Raz details Madden's conviction and 31-month sentence at a federal prison camp in Florida. Madden explains his mental strategy of rejecting self-pity and focusing on self-improvement. | |
| Personal Growth, Marriage, and Systemic Insights | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Madden reflects on the emotional toll of incarceration, stating that while he regrets his crimes, he does not regret the personal growth prison afforded. He educates the audience on what he learned about systemic racism and harsh drug sentencing. | |
| Prison Release and Sensory Reintegration | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Madden describes the overwhelming sensory experience of being released in 2005 and returning directly to the company. He openly reflects on his shortcomings as a CEO and his preference for creative leadership. | |
| Motivation, Money, and Creative Inspiration | 5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Raz questions why Madden stayed in the business when he already had immense wealth, citing media mogul Haim Saban's perspective on financial milestones. Madden responds that creative inspiration and energy cannot be bought. | |
| Personal Style and High Fashion Snobbery | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Raz asks Madden about his unpretentious style and high fashion elitism. Madden admits frustration over luxury department stores refusing to stock his shoes while their floor staff wore them. | |
| Industry Gatekeeping and the 'Gateway Drug' of Footwear | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | Madden vents about being barred from elite designer organizations like the CFDA, cheekily reframing his brand as the 'gateway drug' that builds the luxury shoe market. He shares his philosophy on luck and embracing mistakes. | |
| How You Built That: The Keyboard Waffle Iron | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy Raz interviews Chris Domino in the 'How You Built That' segment, tracking the creation of the Keyboard Waffle Iron from design school to Kickstarter. | |
| Show Outro and Production Credits | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Standard show credits and promo for NPR's LifeKit. Monologue delivery with no host-guest interaction. |
Statements from this episode (21)
Madden: Father capped business upside due to Great Depression fear
“Yes, my dad was, but you know, he grew up in the depression, and you know, he was very limited, filled with fear because he had seen so much poverty. So his, he sort of capped his upside.”
Steve Madden: Design requires balancing commercial viability with creativity
“And I like creating stuff to sell. It's always been sort of a core sort of philosophy of mine. I've never been like, oh, that's creative, but you know, nobody wants to buy it. And then on the other hand, you know, just to sell without any kind of creativity is…”
Madden: Father cutting college tuition was a major favor
“My dad did me the biggest favor by pulling me out of school. When I say pulled me out of school, he refused to pay another 50 cents for me to fool around in college.”
Madden: Mainstream shoe industry abandoned youth and teen market in 1990
“What was happening was the market that I was selling to, everybody in the shoe business walked away from it. The teenagers, you know, and stuff like that, the young, and it was a different generation, you know, and so they had their own thing, their own music,…”
Madden: Steve Madden generated roughly $500,000 in its first year
“I probably did I don't know, 500,000.”
Madden had $30,000 when Stratton Oakmont offered a $6M IPO
“And then he said, well, not only will I get you 600 grand, but I'm going to get you six million dollars when I take you public. And I laughed at him, you know, because I probably had 30,000 dollars in my, to my name.”
Madden says Wolf of Wall Street scene depicting his speech is accurate
“So that scene. With me talking in front of the, it was very accurate.”
Madden: Steve Madden IPO was manipulated in Stratton Oakmont pump-and-dump
“Well, they were totally manipulated. The stocks, they went up, and it, you know, it was a pump, it was a classic pump and dump. And only Steve Madden was a real company.”
Madden: Steve Madden grew from $500K to $40M–$50M post-IPO
“I took it and in very short period of time from a half a million bucks, I was doing forty million a year or fifty million a year.”
Madden details illegal stock flipping arrangements with Stratton Oakmont
“And I told myself that it was a gray area, you know, the trading in these stocks and the flipping, they would sell me the stocks and I would sell them back to them.”
Madden admits he knew his Stratton Oakmont trades were illegal
“But I knew in my heart that it was illegal and it was wrong.”
Madden on prison survival: Complaining and proclaiming innocence are futile
“But I quickly ascertained early on that whining and moaning would not do me any good, and running around saying I was innocent would not do me any good, so I would try to get through this, try to better myself, if it sounds corny, but exercise and read and lea…”
Madden doubts he would have had children without his prison sentence
“I don't know that I would have had children had I not gone to prison.”
Madden regrets his dishonest shortcuts but does not regret his prison sentence
“I regret some of my choices you know, shortcuts that I took, or, you know, thinking that money was the most important thing. I regret decisions like that. But I don't regret a day in prison. It was an amazing experience.”
Steve Madden: U.S. drug laws and sentences were biased against Black people
“Well, particularly the African-American experience really touched me, and young men dealing drugs, getting huge sentences, unfair drug laws that really were biased against black people.”
Steve Madden: Non-detail-oriented founders cannot remain CEO as a business scales
“When it's, the business is small, you can kind of be the CEO. So, you know everybody, you live and breathe it, and then you could be a CEO, because you touch everything. But then a business, you know, once a business gets past a certain point, You know, it's i…”
Steve Madden: Steve Madden's growth came from product value, not marketing
“The marketing wasn't super fantastic. It was just great shoes, great prices, great value, and, ah, you know, I think that we just wore everybody out with that.”
Steve Madden: Barneys Refused His Brand Despite Employees Wearing It
“I w or I would go into a high end department store like a Barney's, let's say, and they wouldn't carry Steve Madden. They wouldn't dare carry Steve Madden, but all the people working in the store wore Steve Madden.”
Madden: Steve Madden Is the Gateway Drug to Buying Louboutins and Manolos
“By the way, I always say it's a gateway drug of shoes, Steve Madden. They're not buying- Louboutins and Manolo's, without starting with Steve Madden. So Manolo should give me tons of love for that. I reach much, many more people than you.”