Jul 1, 2019 · 1h 7m · how-i-built-this
Dave's Killer Bread: Dave Dahl
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of NPR's How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews Dave Dahl, exploring his remarkable transformation from chronic depression, drug addiction, and fifteen years of incarceration to co-founding the multimillion-dollar organic bakery brand Dave's Killer Bread, while candidly navigating the personal and familial challenges that followed.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 35.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 1.9 Guest teaching 2.1 Guest disagreement 0.8 Guy pushing back 0.9
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 33:45 Dave pushes back on family perceiving him as undeserving
Dave rejects the narrative that everything went smoothly, firmly asserting that his family resented his fast popularity and treated him as an undisciplined wrecking ball.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 31:56 Guy presses Dave on his dependence on his family's business acumenGuy interrupts the product narrative to bluntly state that the brand likely never would have existed without his brother Glenn and nephew Shobi managing the commercial side.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 27:50 Dave schools Guy on professional bread testing standardsDave corrects Guy's assumption about eating warm bread straight out of the oven, explaining that true quality and shelf-life testing requires waiting until the bread cools completely.
Guy holds their own ▶ 27:34 Guy challenges bread shelf-life mechanicsGuy demonstrates practical baking knowledge by pressing Dave on how a commercial loaf can maintain taste and texture five days later without chemical preservatives.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| NPR Live Events and How I Built This Summit Announcements | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Host monologue introducing NPR live events, the How I Built This summit, and setting up the premise of Dave Dahl's transformation. | |
| Strict Adventist Upbringing and Early Days at the Family Bakery | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy explores Dave's Seventh-day Adventist upbringing and family bakery history. Dave lightly corrects Guy's perception of his father, noting his dad hated hippies despite catering to them. | |
| Teenage Rebellion, Hitchhiking, and Marine Corps Enlistment | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Dave recounts his teenage rebellion, hitchhiking out of state, and failing out of the Marine Corps boot camp. | |
| Early Adulthood, Undiagnosed Struggles, and Escalating Substance Abuse | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Dave reflects candidly on undiagnosed severe ADD, depression, and early drug use in his twenties, with Guy offering empathetic validation. | |
| Methamphetamine Addiction and Descending into Burglary | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Dave details his introduction to methamphetamine and descent into committing residential and commercial burglaries to fund his habit. | |
| Fifteen Years Incarcerated and Coping with Family Loss | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Dave recounts serving roughly fifteen years in incarceration and processing familial anger along with the death of his father while imprisoned. | |
| Prison Breakthrough: Surrender, Medication, and Vocational Drafting | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Dave explains his turning point in prison through surrendering pride, starting antidepressant medication, and mastering vocational computer drafting. | |
| Prison Release and Return to Nature Bake | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Dave describes being picked up by his brother Glenn upon release and earning a starting position at Nature Bake at low wages. | |
| Crafting Dave's Killer Bread and the Signature Recipe | 4 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Guy asks a technical question about bread shelf-life and stability; Dave schools him on why hot bread cannot be used to judge a loaf's longevity. | |
| Establishing the Brand Partnership and Early Family Tensions | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Guy pushes Dave to acknowledge that the business required his brother's and nephew's financial discipline to succeed, which Dave readily confirms while detailing their friction. | |
| Farmers Market Triumph and Developing the Guitar Logo | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | Dave explains how his ex-con story connected with farmers market customers and how he pushed the illustrator to exaggerate his biceps on the iconic logo. | |
| Retail Expansion, New Seasons, and Relocating Production | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Dave details early retail expansion through New Seasons and moving into Bob's Red Mill's former facility backed by Glenn's personal loan guarantees. | |
| Scaling with Costco and Establishing Second-Chance Hiring | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Dave explains managing co-manufacturers for Costco and how their informal willingness to give felons a chance led temp agencies to send ex-cons in bulk. | |
| Private Equity Deal, Escalating Internal Friction, and Relapse | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Guy presses Dave on whether fame inflated his ego; Dave admits adopting a reckless rockstar persona and falling into heavy alcoholism. | |
| The 2013 Mental Health Breakdown and Hospitalization | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Dave describes his severe 2013 mental health crisis, punching his own cardboard cutout, and ramming police vehicles before checking into a psychiatric hospital. | |
| Hitting Bottom with Breaking Bread and Dedicated Recovery | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Dave shares hitting rock bottom after reading an unflattering investigative article and adopting medical maintenance and 12-step recovery. | |
| $275 Million Acquisition, Family Legacy, and Reflection | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Dave reflects on the $275 million company buyout, ongoing estrangement from his brother and nephew, and what he attributes his true success to. | |
| How You Built That: Pit Liquor Deodorant | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy interviews Erica and Jason Foyt about founding Pit Liquor Deodorant using spirits, botanical teas, and overcoming leaky spray caps. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Dave Dahl's father shifted the family bakery to whole grains via Adventist influence
“At some point my dad decided that he wanted to do more More whole grains and, ah, no animal fats. That was, it was revolutionary at the time. But that was definitely the Seventh-day Adventist influence.”
Dave Dahl turned to burglary to fund his methamphetamine addiction
“Eventually it was unsustainable, and so I lost that job, and I started doing car burglaries, then eventually business and house burglaries. To pay for the dope.”
Dave Dahl spent 15 years in prison and jail
“It comes up to just around 15 years in prison and jail.”
Dahl: Contract manufacturing for Trader Joe's sustained Nature Bake
“And somehow they managed to become contract manufacturers of for Trader Joe's, which was really the bread and butter for the business before I got out.”
Dave Dahl rejoined the family bakery at $12 an hour after prison
“I had to prove myself at the very low, the very lowest .12 bucks an hour.”
Dave Dahl: Eating fresh, hot bread is a poor test of quality
“I hardly ever would eat it hot because that's really not, not a good test of how good it is.”
Dave Dahl: Marketing firm rejected ex-con branding and name as too risky
“We went to a marketing firm to tell the story, this ex-con, this killer bread, and they're like, nah, nah, it's too risky, and all this stuff.”
Dave Dahl's father was Bob's Red Mill's first wholesale flour customer
“In fact, my dad was Bob's first whole wheat flour
wholesale customer.”
Dave Dahl: Relocating production cost $1.5M with zero supporting cash flow
“It cost us a million and a half to move to this new facility, and a million and a half to us then was a lot of money.
And there was no cash flow to support that.
It was all based on the future.”
Dave Dahl says second-chance hiring provides employers with amazing workers
“People do change, and when they're ready, how great would it be to give them that opportunity, and then we get an amazing employee.”
Temp agencies exclusively sent formerly incarcerated people to Dave's Killer Bread
“Once the temporary services, and that's how we recruited our people generally. Once they found out that we were felon friendly, it was funny, that's all they sent us. We were hiring so fast that, you know, we ended up hiring a lot more felons, and it just work…”
Dave Dahl: Dave's Killer Bread CEO barred him from company property
“I had decided that day that I was going to go against the new CEO's mandate that I was not supposed to be on the property.”
Dave Dahl checked into Cedar Hills Hospital following a 2013 arrest
“I went to jail for, like, 36 hours, and I was seeing all this stuff about me on TV, and I wasn't, you know, I was freaky. But my attorney tells me, look, dude, you have to check in to Cedar Hills Hospital, mental hospital because you're not quite right. So eve…”