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Sep 17, 2020 · 28m · how-i-built-this

How I Built Resilience: Bert and John Jacobs of Life is Good

Bert Jacobs · 11m spoken John Jacobs · 8m spoken Guy Raz · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of 'How I Built This: Resilience Edition,' Guy Raz interviews Life is Good co-founders Bert and John Jacobs about guiding their apparel company through the COVID-19 pandemic. The brothers explain how they leveraged on-demand manufacturing, purpose-driven leadership, and their philosophy of rational optimism to double e-commerce revenue and maintain company resilience.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 24.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 1.5 Guest teaching 1.5 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 0.3
05100:0010:0020:000:51–6:36 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Welcome to Resilience Edition and Office Check-In Guy Raz sets an easygoing tone, asking about their physical office setup and initial COVID-19 pandemic response. Bert and John Jacobs share how they navigated supply chain decisions and safety protocols without tension.6:37–11:01 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Investing in Direct-to-Garment Technology and E-Commerce Surge Raz probes into the financial risk of investing in direct-to-garment printing during a near-bankruptcy crisis. The founders explain the inventory mechanics and clarify that the crisis actually accelerated their planned transition to on-demand e-commerce.11:01–13:01 · Guy as informed peer 0/10 Foundational Values and Purpose-Driven Resilience John Jacobs delivers a monologue outlining the company's core superpowers and purpose-driven mission. Raz lets the guest speak uninterrupted before going to the mid-roll break.13:09–18:48 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Practicing Rational Optimism and Inspiring Customer Stories Raz candidly pushes back on unvarnished optimism by sharing how difficult the current climate is for him personally. Bert and John readily agree, clarifying that their philosophy is rational optimism grounded in real hardship rather than naive positivity.18:48–24:45 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Childhood Influences and Operational Problem Solving Raz prompts the founders on their family background and asks them to distinguish rational optimism from irrational optimism. Bert provides a clear definition and explains how optimism drives operational problem-solving.24:45–27:54 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Leadership Takeaways and Co-Authoring the Brand The conversation closes with lessons on organizational listening and brand co-authorship. Raz maintains a friendly, appreciative demeanor and wraps up the interview warmly.0:51–6:36 · Guest teaching 1/10 Welcome to Resilience Edition and Office Check-In Guy Raz sets an easygoing tone, asking about their physical office setup and initial COVID-19 pandemic response. Bert and John Jacobs share how they navigated supply chain decisions and safety protocols without tension.6:37–11:01 · Guest teaching 2/10 Investing in Direct-to-Garment Technology and E-Commerce Surge Raz probes into the financial risk of investing in direct-to-garment printing during a near-bankruptcy crisis. The founders explain the inventory mechanics and clarify that the crisis actually accelerated their planned transition to on-demand e-commerce.11:01–13:01 · Guest teaching 2/10 Foundational Values and Purpose-Driven Resilience John Jacobs delivers a monologue outlining the company's core superpowers and purpose-driven mission. Raz lets the guest speak uninterrupted before going to the mid-roll break.13:09–18:48 · Guest teaching 1/10 Practicing Rational Optimism and Inspiring Customer Stories Raz candidly pushes back on unvarnished optimism by sharing how difficult the current climate is for him personally. Bert and John readily agree, clarifying that their philosophy is rational optimism grounded in real hardship rather than naive positivity.18:48–24:45 · Guest teaching 2/10 Childhood Influences and Operational Problem Solving Raz prompts the founders on their family background and asks them to distinguish rational optimism from irrational optimism. Bert provides a clear definition and explains how optimism drives operational problem-solving.24:45–27:54 · Guest teaching 1/10 Leadership Takeaways and Co-Authoring the Brand The conversation closes with lessons on organizational listening and brand co-authorship. Raz maintains a friendly, appreciative demeanor and wraps up the interview warmly.0:51–6:36 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Welcome to Resilience Edition and Office Check-In Guy Raz sets an easygoing tone, asking about their physical office setup and initial COVID-19 pandemic response. Bert and John Jacobs share how they navigated supply chain decisions and safety protocols without tension.6:37–11:01 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Investing in Direct-to-Garment Technology and E-Commerce Surge Raz probes into the financial risk of investing in direct-to-garment printing during a near-bankruptcy crisis. The founders explain the inventory mechanics and clarify that the crisis actually accelerated their planned transition to on-demand e-commerce.11:01–13:01 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Foundational Values and Purpose-Driven Resilience John Jacobs delivers a monologue outlining the company's core superpowers and purpose-driven mission. Raz lets the guest speak uninterrupted before going to the mid-roll break.13:09–18:48 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Practicing Rational Optimism and Inspiring Customer Stories Raz candidly pushes back on unvarnished optimism by sharing how difficult the current climate is for him personally. Bert and John readily agree, clarifying that their philosophy is rational optimism grounded in real hardship rather than naive positivity.18:48–24:45 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Childhood Influences and Operational Problem Solving Raz prompts the founders on their family background and asks them to distinguish rational optimism from irrational optimism. Bert provides a clear definition and explains how optimism drives operational problem-solving.24:45–27:54 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Leadership Takeaways and Co-Authoring the Brand The conversation closes with lessons on organizational listening and brand co-authorship. Raz maintains a friendly, appreciative demeanor and wraps up the interview warmly.0:51–6:36 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Welcome to Resilience Edition and Office Check-In Guy Raz sets an easygoing tone, asking about their physical office setup and initial COVID-19 pandemic response. Bert and John Jacobs share how they navigated supply chain decisions and safety protocols without tension.6:37–11:01 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Investing in Direct-to-Garment Technology and E-Commerce Surge Raz probes into the financial risk of investing in direct-to-garment printing during a near-bankruptcy crisis. The founders explain the inventory mechanics and clarify that the crisis actually accelerated their planned transition to on-demand e-commerce.11:01–13:01 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Foundational Values and Purpose-Driven Resilience John Jacobs delivers a monologue outlining the company's core superpowers and purpose-driven mission. Raz lets the guest speak uninterrupted before going to the mid-roll break.13:09–18:48 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Practicing Rational Optimism and Inspiring Customer Stories Raz candidly pushes back on unvarnished optimism by sharing how difficult the current climate is for him personally. Bert and John readily agree, clarifying that their philosophy is rational optimism grounded in real hardship rather than naive positivity.18:48–24:45 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Childhood Influences and Operational Problem Solving Raz prompts the founders on their family background and asks them to distinguish rational optimism from irrational optimism. Bert provides a clear definition and explains how optimism drives operational problem-solving.24:45–27:54 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Leadership Takeaways and Co-Authoring the Brand The conversation closes with lessons on organizational listening and brand co-authorship. Raz maintains a friendly, appreciative demeanor and wraps up the interview warmly.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 69% · guest 31%0:00 · Guy 69% · guest 31%3:00 · Guy 0% · guest 100%3:00 · Guy 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Guy 29.3% · guest 70.7%6:00 · Guy 29.3% · guest 70.7%9:00 · Guy 14.5% · guest 85.5%9:00 · Guy 14.5% · guest 85.5%12:00 · Guy 52.1% · guest 47.9%12:00 · Guy 52.1% · guest 47.9%15:00 · Guy 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Guy 0% · guest 100%18:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%18:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%21:00 · Guy 2.9% · guest 97.1%21:00 · Guy 2.9% · guest 97.1%24:00 · Guy 5.7% · guest 94.3%24:00 · Guy 5.7% · guest 94.3%27:00 · Guy 66.1% · guest 33.9%27:00 · Guy 66.1% · guest 33.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 2:00 Playful brotherly banter on sharing office space

In a very warm and non-combative interview, the closest to pushback is playful brotherly ribbing when Bert rejects John's joke about having a wall between them.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 13:30 Raz challenges unbridled positivity during overlapping crises

Raz pushes back on simplistic positivity by describing his own genuine exhaustion and sadness dealing with the pandemic, wildfires, and political turmoil.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 22:04 Bert clarifies rational vs irrational optimism

Bert educates listeners and the host by explaining that pretending everything is great is delusional, whereas rational optimism acknowledges genuine tragedy while focusing on actionable solutions.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 8:35 Raz questions high-capital risk during potential bankruptcy

Raz applies business acumen by questioning the financial wisdom of purchasing expensive machinery when the company was facing potential insolvency.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Welcome to Resilience Edition and Office Check-In 1100 Guy Raz sets an easygoing tone, asking about their physical office setup and initial COVID-19 pandemic response. Bert and John Jacobs share how they navigated supply chain decisions and safety protocols without tension.
Investing in Direct-to-Garment Technology and E-Commerce Surge 3211 Raz probes into the financial risk of investing in direct-to-garment printing during a near-bankruptcy crisis. The founders explain the inventory mechanics and clarify that the crisis actually accelerated their planned transition to on-demand e-commerce.
Foundational Values and Purpose-Driven Resilience 0200 John Jacobs delivers a monologue outlining the company's core superpowers and purpose-driven mission. Raz lets the guest speak uninterrupted before going to the mid-roll break.
Practicing Rational Optimism and Inspiring Customer Stories 2101 Raz candidly pushes back on unvarnished optimism by sharing how difficult the current climate is for him personally. Bert and John readily agree, clarifying that their philosophy is rational optimism grounded in real hardship rather than naive positivity.
Childhood Influences and Operational Problem Solving 2200 Raz prompts the founders on their family background and asks them to distinguish rational optimism from irrational optimism. Bert provides a clear definition and explains how optimism drives operational problem-solving.
Leadership Takeaways and Co-Authoring the Brand 1100 The conversation closes with lessons on organizational listening and brand co-authorship. Raz maintains a friendly, appreciative demeanor and wraps up the interview warmly.

Statements from this episode (7)

Disclosure
Life is Good faced decimation when COVID wiped out wholesale orders
“Our business is structured in a way where half of our business was wholesale, and that means the high majority of those retailers closed their doors, canceled their orders, and our business was pretty close to being decimated, so we were having discussions can…”
Bert Jacobs Sep 17, 2020 ▶ 3:07
Insight
Jacobs: 12-to-18-month wholesale retail supply chains are an archaic model
“The tail was wagging the dog where the wholesale business and this long supply chain window was kind of ruling our company, and we already knew that that was an archaic model. All of America retail operates on it by and large. We knew that consumers want thing…”
Bert Jacobs Sep 17, 2020 ▶ 5:45
Disclosure
Jacobs: Life is Good spent millions on direct-to-garment tech pre-COVID
“We've been researching for the better part of five years, and we just, before COVID hit, spent several million dollars on technology”
Bert Jacobs Sep 17, 2020 ▶ 7:24
Insight
Jacobs: Perfect inventory matters more than lower per-unit printing costs
“So it essentially is more expensive to print per unit, but if we're doing it right, you end up with perfect inventory and inventory is the thing that kills businesses.”
Bert Jacobs Sep 17, 2020 ▶ 7:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jacobs: Life is Good e-commerce revenue doubled year-over-year in 2020
“Our e-commerce business has doubled to date over last year in such a difficult macroeconomic environment, and the wholesale business, you know, went down to next to nothing, but it's starting to rise again.”
Bert Jacobs Sep 17, 2020 ▶ 10:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Life is Good saw its greatest growth following 9/11 and 2008
“The inflection points where our business has thrived the most, we've steadily grown and had a healthy business, but I'll go through them really quickly. 2001, nine 11. Believe it or not, in the wake of that awful disaster, our business grew. It grew tremendous…”
Bert Jacobs Sep 17, 2020 ▶ 14:46
Insight
Bert Jacobs: Modern brands cannot be built without consumer co-authorship
“It's the 21st century, and anybody who thinks that they're a smart entrepreneur or a smart marketer, and they're gonna build their brand on their own, you're kidding yourself. You have to enable your consumers to co-author the story of your brand”
Bert Jacobs Sep 17, 2020 ▶ 26:55
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