Jun 19, 2023 · 1h 9m · how-i-built-this
Spikeball: Chris Ruder
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews Chris Ruder on how he revived an obscure, discontinued 1980s yard toy and transformed Spikeball into a multi-million-dollar global sport.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 37.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.9 Guest disagreement 1.5 Guy pushing back 1.8
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:22 Ruder defending his legal and ethical conduct regarding the inventor
Ruder firmly refutes the accusation of unethical behavior from original inventor Jeff Knurek, asserting that he did the right thing by reaching out when legally he had no obligation to do so.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 17:40 Raz directly confronting Ruder with the inventor's grievanceRaz presses Ruder by directly sharing that the show contacted Jeff Knurek, who expressed that Ruder's appropriation of the game was unethical within the toy and game industry.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 41:08 Ruder detailing the surprising Amish and Mennonite adoptionRuder educates Raz on how Lancaster County's Amish and Mennonite communities embraced the sport, culminating in a front-page Wall Street Journal feature.
Guy holds their own ▶ 17:06 Raz explaining toy industry IP norms and legal realitiesRaz demonstrates deep research into toy industry standards, explaining why independent inventors rely on manufacturers for patent protection and how Knurek was left exposed.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Early Ambitions and the Dot-Com Era | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy Raz traces Chris Ruder's background from the dot-com boom in San Francisco to corporate sales in Cincinnati. The dynamic is collaborative and conversational as Ruder describes his desire for entrepreneurial autonomy. | |
| Discovering Spikeball in Kauai | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy Raz demonstrates strong knowledge of the mechanics of the game, comparing its rules to volleyball and explaining the bump-set-spike flow while Ruder confirms the details of rediscovering it in Kauai. | |
| The Spark to Revive Spikeball | 4 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Raz and Ruder discuss the gap between casual startup ideas and execution. Ruder candidly reflects on how a toxic culture at Monster catalyzed his decision to treat the project seriously. | |
| Intellectual Property and Contacting the Original Inventor | 7 | 4 | 3 | 6 | Raz actively intervenes with independent research, confronting Ruder with the fact that his team reached out to the original inventor Jeff Knurek, who felt the revival was unethical. Ruder respectfully defends his legal position while acknowledging Knurek's perspective. | |
| Securing the Domain and Raising Seed Capital | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Ruder explains negotiating the domain purchase for $100 and gathering initial seed money from friends with no guarantee of returns. Raz prompts for the financial specifics and skepticism from peers. | |
| First Production Run and Reorganizing Company Equity | 5 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Ruder recounts partnering with a McDonald's Happy Meal toy supplier for the initial run and restructuring equity to incentivize himself when friends became silent partners. Raz asks clarifying questions about operations. | |
| Grassroots Launch at North Avenue Beach | 5 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Raz presses on early financial viability and the reality of slow initial sales. Ruder explains collecting leads manually via clipboard on Chicago beaches and learning how difficult it was for new players to learn. | |
| Community Expansion: Young Life, PE Teachers, and the Amish | 5 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Ruder breaks down how viral adoption among Young Life youth leaders, PE instructors, and Amish communities drove organic sales. Ruder gently corrects Raz that Ultimate players drop 'Frisbee' from the name. | |
| Scaling to $1 Million and the Cash Flow Crunch of Big Box Retail | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | Raz guides Ruder through quitting his job after hitting $1M in sales and navigating the hidden working capital trap of big-box retail terms when expanding into Dick's Sporting Goods. | |
| The Shark Tank Deal and Why It Fell Through | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Raz provides industry context about television dynamics on Shark Tank, while Ruder explains why he walked away from Daymond John's licensing strategy to protect brand authenticity. | |
| Creating the Sport of Roundnet for Long-Term Trademark Protection | 6 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Ruder details the strategic decision to brand the sport as 'Roundnet' to avoid genericide, inspired by Rollerblade's inline skating precedent, while Raz compares the phenomenon to Pickleball. | |
| Handling Competition, Acquiring Fuego, and Reflecting on Success | 6 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Raz questions Ruder on long-term diversification and competition from knockoffs. Ruder shares the acquisition of tournament platform Fuego and reflects on the interplay between hard work and serendipity. |
Statements from this episode (21)
Chris Ruder: Vacation Requests Should Default to Yes for Strong Performers
“If you're doing your job well, and everything, and you know, you're gonna make sure things are covered while you're out, You know, the default answer should be yes.”
Ruder: Spikeball was originally launched in 1989
“I believe Spikeball was launched in 1989, so I was 14 at the time.”
Chris Ruder Says Monster Faced SEC Trouble and Toxic Culture
“But the last couple years, culture went kind of toxic. Company got in some trouble with the SEC I think maybe an exec or two went to jail and it became a pretty toxic environment”
The Original Spikeball Had No Patent and an Expired Trademark
“There never was a patent on the product, so the design itself is kind of open, and the trademark, which protects the name Spikeball, has been expired, like, 10 years or something like that, so.”
Ruder: Spikeball purchased its domain name for $100
“So we got spikeball.com for a hundred dollars.”
Ruder: Spikeball raised a little over $100,000 in initial capital
“So we wound up raising, I think, a little over a 100,000 dollars. So it was roughly 10, 15,000 dollars a head.”
Spikeball paid $40k to $50k for its first 1,000 manufacturing run
“And if I remember right, I think it was about 40,000, maybe 50,000 dollars for those first thousand sets.”
Chris Ruder Earned Spikeball Equity From Partners via Sales Targets
“So I came up with, I think it was like a three-year plan where if I hit certain sales numbers, I would earn stock from them. If I didn't hit the number, then I don't get anything, and some of the guys were cool with that. Some were not, but, you know, I spoke …”
Chris Ruder Says Five Minutes of Play Guarantees Spikeball Retention
“As long as they're willing to play for five to 10 minutes, they'll get it. But if they give up before then, our chances of keeping them are pretty low.”
Ruder: Spikeball generated $10,882 in revenue in its launch year
“We finished that year at, I believe, 10,882 dollars.”
Ruder: Spikeball does not have a formal business plan
“To this day, you know, we don't have a formal business plan”
Ruder: Early Spikeball Customers Received Non-Automated Personal Emails From the Founder
“So nearly every customer that bought at spikeball.com would get a personal email from me. It was not automated.”
A Free Product That Cannot Market Itself Is Not Great
“You need to give away a ton of your product for free. And if the product can't really travel on its own, it can't market itself, then you might not have that great of a product.”
Spikeball Earned a Front-Page Wall Street Journal Story on Amish Players
“We wound up getting a front page story on the Wall Street Journal on that topic.”
Spikeball Reached $1 Million in Revenue Without Any Full-Time Employees
“So we had a million dollars
with zero full-time employees in 2013, and that's when my wife and I agreed it was safe to quit the day job.”
Ruder: Dick's Sporting Goods reached out unprompted to carry Spikeball in 2014
“And, yeah, it was about a year later that when Dick's Boarding Goods actually reached out to us and said, hey, we'd love to carry your product.”
Spikeball's Shark Tank Deal With Daymond John Collapsed Over Licensing
“And when we talked about sort of what direction it would be or what do we want to do, his main interest lied in licensing. So I think he said something along the lines of, you know, Chris, I've got friends at Marvel Comics. Let's maybe explore like a Spider-Ma…”
Ruder: Shark Tank finale appearance drove immediate direct sales and retail inbounds
“It was the final segment of the season finale. So yeah, we had a massive party at our office, huge sales on spikeball.com that weekend and in the weeks to follow. But the real lift was we started getting tons of inbound requests from retailers, primarily like …”
Chris Ruder Predicts Roundnet Will Eventually Become an Olympic Sport
“Yeah, I absolutely think we will be recognized by the Olympics. I think there will be professional round net players, and we will be considered a legitimate sport.”