StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

May 9, 2024 · 54m · how-i-built-this

Advice Line with Gary Erickson of Clif Bar

Guy Raz · 18m spoken Gary Erickson · 12m spoken Valerie Franklin · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

On this Advice Line episode of How I Built This Lab, host Guy Raz and Clif Bar founder Gary Erickson provide strategic guidance to three entrepreneurs on branding, differentiation, and scaling. Drawing from Clif Bar's grassroots history, they share actionable playbooks for positioning challenger products against entrenched market incumbents.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 37.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 6.5 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.0 Guy pushing back 2.0
05100:0015:0030:0045:000:59–5:05 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Gary Erickson on Clif Bar's Grassroots Growth Strategy Guy Raz demonstrates detailed familiarity with Clif Bar's history and Gary Erickson's backstory of walking away from acquisition offers. Erickson elaborates on his grassroots sampling strategy among cyclists and climbers in a completely collaborative opening dialogue.5:05–17:36 · Guy as informed peer 7/10 Advising Stoked Plastics on Market Differentiation and Branding Guy Raz and Gary Erickson work together to advise caller James, with Raz drawing insightful marketing parallels to On running shoes and Roger Federer. The conversation is amicable and supportive with the hosts exploring business model clarity.17:55–33:52 · Guy as informed peer 7/10 Guiding Artisans Cooperative to Compete with E-Commerce Giants Erickson and Raz push back on Valerie's hesitation to name Etsy directly as a competitor and critique her site's cluttered UI. Raz brings strong product merchandising examples, advising a sharp focus on curated gift categories.34:10–52:24 · Guy as informed peer 7/10 Helping Lily Brush Scale Operations and Combat Market Copycats Raz cites his interview with TRX founder Randy Hetrick to give strategic advice on fighting cheap copycats and suggests checkout placement at car washes. The exchange is deeply encouraging, with Erickson adding operational perspective on hiring and bootstrapping.0:59–5:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Gary Erickson on Clif Bar's Grassroots Growth Strategy Guy Raz demonstrates detailed familiarity with Clif Bar's history and Gary Erickson's backstory of walking away from acquisition offers. Erickson elaborates on his grassroots sampling strategy among cyclists and climbers in a completely collaborative opening dialogue.5:05–17:36 · Guest teaching 1/10 Advising Stoked Plastics on Market Differentiation and Branding Guy Raz and Gary Erickson work together to advise caller James, with Raz drawing insightful marketing parallels to On running shoes and Roger Federer. The conversation is amicable and supportive with the hosts exploring business model clarity.17:55–33:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Guiding Artisans Cooperative to Compete with E-Commerce Giants Erickson and Raz push back on Valerie's hesitation to name Etsy directly as a competitor and critique her site's cluttered UI. Raz brings strong product merchandising examples, advising a sharp focus on curated gift categories.34:10–52:24 · Guest teaching 2/10 Helping Lily Brush Scale Operations and Combat Market Copycats Raz cites his interview with TRX founder Randy Hetrick to give strategic advice on fighting cheap copycats and suggests checkout placement at car washes. The exchange is deeply encouraging, with Erickson adding operational perspective on hiring and bootstrapping.0:59–5:05 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Gary Erickson on Clif Bar's Grassroots Growth Strategy Guy Raz demonstrates detailed familiarity with Clif Bar's history and Gary Erickson's backstory of walking away from acquisition offers. Erickson elaborates on his grassroots sampling strategy among cyclists and climbers in a completely collaborative opening dialogue.5:05–17:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advising Stoked Plastics on Market Differentiation and Branding Guy Raz and Gary Erickson work together to advise caller James, with Raz drawing insightful marketing parallels to On running shoes and Roger Federer. The conversation is amicable and supportive with the hosts exploring business model clarity.17:55–33:52 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Guiding Artisans Cooperative to Compete with E-Commerce Giants Erickson and Raz push back on Valerie's hesitation to name Etsy directly as a competitor and critique her site's cluttered UI. Raz brings strong product merchandising examples, advising a sharp focus on curated gift categories.34:10–52:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Helping Lily Brush Scale Operations and Combat Market Copycats Raz cites his interview with TRX founder Randy Hetrick to give strategic advice on fighting cheap copycats and suggests checkout placement at car washes. The exchange is deeply encouraging, with Erickson adding operational perspective on hiring and bootstrapping.0:59–5:05 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Gary Erickson on Clif Bar's Grassroots Growth Strategy Guy Raz demonstrates detailed familiarity with Clif Bar's history and Gary Erickson's backstory of walking away from acquisition offers. Erickson elaborates on his grassroots sampling strategy among cyclists and climbers in a completely collaborative opening dialogue.5:05–17:36 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Advising Stoked Plastics on Market Differentiation and Branding Guy Raz and Gary Erickson work together to advise caller James, with Raz drawing insightful marketing parallels to On running shoes and Roger Federer. The conversation is amicable and supportive with the hosts exploring business model clarity.17:55–33:52 · Guy pushing back 4/10 Guiding Artisans Cooperative to Compete with E-Commerce Giants Erickson and Raz push back on Valerie's hesitation to name Etsy directly as a competitor and critique her site's cluttered UI. Raz brings strong product merchandising examples, advising a sharp focus on curated gift categories.34:10–52:24 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Helping Lily Brush Scale Operations and Combat Market Copycats Raz cites his interview with TRX founder Randy Hetrick to give strategic advice on fighting cheap copycats and suggests checkout placement at car washes. The exchange is deeply encouraging, with Erickson adding operational perspective on hiring and bootstrapping.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 69.6% · guest 30.4%0:00 · Guy 69.6% · guest 30.4%3:00 · Guy 43.4% · guest 56.6%3:00 · Guy 43.4% · guest 56.6%6:00 · Guy 31.9% · guest 68.1%6:00 · Guy 31.9% · guest 68.1%9:00 · Guy 17.9% · guest 82.1%9:00 · Guy 17.9% · guest 82.1%12:00 · Guy 20.5% · guest 79.5%12:00 · Guy 20.5% · guest 79.5%15:00 · Guy 53.7% · guest 46.3%15:00 · Guy 53.7% · guest 46.3%18:00 · Guy 35.3% · guest 64.7%18:00 · Guy 35.3% · guest 64.7%21:00 · Guy 16.7% · guest 83.3%21:00 · Guy 16.7% · guest 83.3%24:00 · Guy 44% · guest 56%24:00 · Guy 44% · guest 56%27:00 · Guy 51.7% · guest 48.3%27:00 · Guy 51.7% · guest 48.3%30:00 · Guy 22.5% · guest 77.5%30:00 · Guy 22.5% · guest 77.5%33:00 · Guy 65.2% · guest 34.8%33:00 · Guy 65.2% · guest 34.8%36:00 · Guy 26.3% · guest 73.7%36:00 · Guy 26.3% · guest 73.7%39:00 · Guy 11.9% · guest 88.1%39:00 · Guy 11.9% · guest 88.1%42:00 · Guy 39.3% · guest 60.7%42:00 · Guy 39.3% · guest 60.7%45:00 · Guy 33% · guest 67%45:00 · Guy 33% · guest 67%48:00 · Guy 36.8% · guest 63.2%48:00 · Guy 36.8% · guest 63.2%51:00 · Guy 51% · guest 49%51:00 · Guy 51% · guest 49%54:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%54:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 23:29 Gary Erickson rejects caller's indirect framing of competition

When Valerie hesitates to identify Etsy as a competitor, Erickson bluntly counters that she is avoiding the reality of market competition.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 28:45 Guy Raz critiques Artisans Cooperative website navigation

Raz directly challenges Valerie's cluttered beta website structure, urging her to strip away complicated dropdowns in favor of clean visual categories.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 20:28 Valerie Franklin explains the Etsy strike and co-op economics

Valerie educates the hosts on the financial friction between makers and Etsy following fee hikes, explaining the governance mechanics of a multi-stakeholder cooperative.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 14:35 Guy Raz demonstrates branding acumen via Roger Federer and On

Raz illustrates how performance credibility drives consumer adoption by citing the exact case study of Roger Federer supercharging On running shoes.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Gary Erickson on Clif Bar's Grassroots Growth Strategy 5200 Guy Raz demonstrates detailed familiarity with Clif Bar's history and Gary Erickson's backstory of walking away from acquisition offers. Erickson elaborates on his grassroots sampling strategy among cyclists and climbers in a completely collaborative opening dialogue.
Advising Stoked Plastics on Market Differentiation and Branding 7112 Guy Raz and Gary Erickson work together to advise caller James, with Raz drawing insightful marketing parallels to On running shoes and Roger Federer. The conversation is amicable and supportive with the hosts exploring business model clarity.
Guiding Artisans Cooperative to Compete with E-Commerce Giants 7224 Erickson and Raz push back on Valerie's hesitation to name Etsy directly as a competitor and critique her site's cluttered UI. Raz brings strong product merchandising examples, advising a sharp focus on curated gift categories.
Helping Lily Brush Scale Operations and Combat Market Copycats 7212 Raz cites his interview with TRX founder Randy Hetrick to give strategic advice on fighting cheap copycats and suggests checkout placement at car washes. The exchange is deeply encouraging, with Erickson adding operational perspective on hiring and bootstrapping.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Contradicted
Erickson: Clif Bar grew revenue every single year for 30 years
“We just, we never did not grow for 30 years.”
Gary Erickson May 9, 2024 ▶ 4:06
Insight
Erickson: Launching directly into mass retail usually fails without niche base
“You have to have that foundation first, and then from there you go out. If you're going to try to go mass market, you have to have so much funding to be able to do that, and chances are it's not going to work, because you've got to build that base.”
Gary Erickson May 9, 2024 ▶ 4:48
Assertion Supported
Erickson: PowerBar sued Clif Bar five days after a comparative print ad
“So we did some print ads and we did a print ad called It's Your Body, You Decide. And it was going directly after Power Bar. And in five days, we had a lawsuit against Power Bar.”
Gary Erickson May 9, 2024 ▶ 11:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Erickson: Clif Bar added 700 retail accounts months after PowerBar lawsuit
“And we had 700 accounts in like months. And our goal Sounds very aggressive, but we're, our goal is to put them out of business, and for the first 10 to 15 years, our people were like, we are going to just go after their market share everywhere we could”
Gary Erickson May 9, 2024 ▶ 12:46
Insight
Raz: Consumers buy for aesthetics and function, not just sustainability
“Cause the majority of people are going to buy it cause they look good and they're functional, not cause they're recycled.”
Guy Raz May 9, 2024 ▶ 15:21
Disclosure
Erickson: A 25-person field sampling team drove Clif Bar's early growth
“We had a team of 25 people around the country, and then they had local people that they would hire for the weekend events, and I really think that's what put us on the map, but our product was, ah, inexpensive enough where we could actually give out whole bars…”
Gary Erickson May 9, 2024 ▶ 18:43
Assertion Supported
Franklin: Etsy raised seller fees 30% while announcing record corporate profits
“So this all really got started when they increased their fees a second time by 30% in 2022 and they announced that fee increase in the same week that they announced record profits.”
Valerie Franklin May 9, 2024 ▶ 21:12
Insight
Erickson: Challenger marketplaces must offer differentiated products, not just better values
“You can't be an Etsy with better values. You got to be Etsy with a different product.”
Gary Erickson May 9, 2024 ▶ 30:28
Assertion Supported
Erickson: Clif Bar never took outside investment in 30 years
“Kit and I never took, A dime from anybody over our 30 years of running Clif Bar, , we never brought on an equity partner.”
Gary Erickson May 9, 2024 ▶ 51:19
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 800 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more