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Oct 18, 2024 · 36m · how-i-built-this

What It Really Takes To Build a Food Business: Part 1

Guy Raz · 13m spoken Brian Rudolph · 7m spoken Caue Suplicy · 6m spoken Becca Milstein · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this special episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews the founders of Fishwife, Banza, and Barnana to uncover how each entrepreneur navigated early ideation, product development, and initial distribution hurdles to build thriving food businesses.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 41.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 3.7 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 0.3 Guy pushing back 0.4
05100:0010:0020:0030:001:16–5:44 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Becca Milstein: The Origins and Spark for Fishwife Guy demonstrates familiarity with Iberian conserva culture, discussing tapas and pickled peppers in Spain and Portugal. Becca confirms this background and elaborates on how her lockdown diet led to founding Fishwife.5:44–11:11 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Brian Rudolph: Transforming Dietary Restrictions into Chickpea Pasta Guy displays knowledge of gluten-free diet substitutions such as corn and rice pasta. Brian provides nutritional detail on chickpeas and politely clarifies that his business degree was undergraduate.11:12–17:25 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Cauê Suplicy: Triathlon Fuel and the Barnana Vision Guy shows industry depth by highlighting the rise of Brazilian CPG commodities like Vita Coco, Zico, and Sambazon acai. Cauê explains how his athletic career and childhood macrobiotic diet shaped Barnana.17:26–19:39 · Guy as informed peer 0/10 Sponsor Message: Growing Customer Relationships with Klaviyo Monologue sponsor message for Klaviyo delivered by the host. Scored zero across all dynamic categories.19:45–24:40 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Becca Milstein: Sourcing, Illustration, and Direct-to-Consumer Strategy Guy explores Becca's distinctive brand positioning and DTC-first strategy. Cauê chimes in to validate the necessity of DTC given the pandemic-era retail shutdown.24:41–31:02 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Brian Rudolph: Scaling Banza and Overcoming Production Failure Guy probes the manufacturing complexity of pasta extrusion and challenges the riskiness of modifying cooking instructions. Brian recounts how Banza survived an early production failure with temporary repackaging stickers.31:03–35:05 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Cauê Suplicy: Launching Barnana and Debuting at Expo West Guy identifies Natural Products Expo West and Wegmans. Cauê educates the host with an anecdote about accidentally turning down Wegmans three times due to not knowing what the chain was.1:16–5:44 · Guest teaching 1/10 Becca Milstein: The Origins and Spark for Fishwife Guy demonstrates familiarity with Iberian conserva culture, discussing tapas and pickled peppers in Spain and Portugal. Becca confirms this background and elaborates on how her lockdown diet led to founding Fishwife.5:44–11:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Brian Rudolph: Transforming Dietary Restrictions into Chickpea Pasta Guy displays knowledge of gluten-free diet substitutions such as corn and rice pasta. Brian provides nutritional detail on chickpeas and politely clarifies that his business degree was undergraduate.11:12–17:25 · Guest teaching 2/10 Cauê Suplicy: Triathlon Fuel and the Barnana Vision Guy shows industry depth by highlighting the rise of Brazilian CPG commodities like Vita Coco, Zico, and Sambazon acai. Cauê explains how his athletic career and childhood macrobiotic diet shaped Barnana.17:26–19:39 · Guest teaching 0/10 Sponsor Message: Growing Customer Relationships with Klaviyo Monologue sponsor message for Klaviyo delivered by the host. Scored zero across all dynamic categories.19:45–24:40 · Guest teaching 2/10 Becca Milstein: Sourcing, Illustration, and Direct-to-Consumer Strategy Guy explores Becca's distinctive brand positioning and DTC-first strategy. Cauê chimes in to validate the necessity of DTC given the pandemic-era retail shutdown.24:41–31:02 · Guest teaching 3/10 Brian Rudolph: Scaling Banza and Overcoming Production Failure Guy probes the manufacturing complexity of pasta extrusion and challenges the riskiness of modifying cooking instructions. Brian recounts how Banza survived an early production failure with temporary repackaging stickers.31:03–35:05 · Guest teaching 4/10 Cauê Suplicy: Launching Barnana and Debuting at Expo West Guy identifies Natural Products Expo West and Wegmans. Cauê educates the host with an anecdote about accidentally turning down Wegmans three times due to not knowing what the chain was.1:16–5:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Becca Milstein: The Origins and Spark for Fishwife Guy demonstrates familiarity with Iberian conserva culture, discussing tapas and pickled peppers in Spain and Portugal. Becca confirms this background and elaborates on how her lockdown diet led to founding Fishwife.5:44–11:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Brian Rudolph: Transforming Dietary Restrictions into Chickpea Pasta Guy displays knowledge of gluten-free diet substitutions such as corn and rice pasta. Brian provides nutritional detail on chickpeas and politely clarifies that his business degree was undergraduate.11:12–17:25 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Cauê Suplicy: Triathlon Fuel and the Barnana Vision Guy shows industry depth by highlighting the rise of Brazilian CPG commodities like Vita Coco, Zico, and Sambazon acai. Cauê explains how his athletic career and childhood macrobiotic diet shaped Barnana.17:26–19:39 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Message: Growing Customer Relationships with Klaviyo Monologue sponsor message for Klaviyo delivered by the host. Scored zero across all dynamic categories.19:45–24:40 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Becca Milstein: Sourcing, Illustration, and Direct-to-Consumer Strategy Guy explores Becca's distinctive brand positioning and DTC-first strategy. Cauê chimes in to validate the necessity of DTC given the pandemic-era retail shutdown.24:41–31:02 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Brian Rudolph: Scaling Banza and Overcoming Production Failure Guy probes the manufacturing complexity of pasta extrusion and challenges the riskiness of modifying cooking instructions. Brian recounts how Banza survived an early production failure with temporary repackaging stickers.31:03–35:05 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Cauê Suplicy: Launching Barnana and Debuting at Expo West Guy identifies Natural Products Expo West and Wegmans. Cauê educates the host with an anecdote about accidentally turning down Wegmans three times due to not knowing what the chain was.1:16–5:44 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Becca Milstein: The Origins and Spark for Fishwife Guy demonstrates familiarity with Iberian conserva culture, discussing tapas and pickled peppers in Spain and Portugal. Becca confirms this background and elaborates on how her lockdown diet led to founding Fishwife.5:44–11:11 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Brian Rudolph: Transforming Dietary Restrictions into Chickpea Pasta Guy displays knowledge of gluten-free diet substitutions such as corn and rice pasta. Brian provides nutritional detail on chickpeas and politely clarifies that his business degree was undergraduate.11:12–17:25 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Cauê Suplicy: Triathlon Fuel and the Barnana Vision Guy shows industry depth by highlighting the rise of Brazilian CPG commodities like Vita Coco, Zico, and Sambazon acai. Cauê explains how his athletic career and childhood macrobiotic diet shaped Barnana.17:26–19:39 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Message: Growing Customer Relationships with Klaviyo Monologue sponsor message for Klaviyo delivered by the host. Scored zero across all dynamic categories.19:45–24:40 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Becca Milstein: Sourcing, Illustration, and Direct-to-Consumer Strategy Guy explores Becca's distinctive brand positioning and DTC-first strategy. Cauê chimes in to validate the necessity of DTC given the pandemic-era retail shutdown.24:41–31:02 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Brian Rudolph: Scaling Banza and Overcoming Production Failure Guy probes the manufacturing complexity of pasta extrusion and challenges the riskiness of modifying cooking instructions. Brian recounts how Banza survived an early production failure with temporary repackaging stickers.31:03–35:05 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Cauê Suplicy: Launching Barnana and Debuting at Expo West Guy identifies Natural Products Expo West and Wegmans. Cauê educates the host with an anecdote about accidentally turning down Wegmans three times due to not knowing what the chain was.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 62% · guest 38%0:00 · Guy 62% · guest 38%3:00 · Guy 32.4% · guest 67.6%3:00 · Guy 32.4% · guest 67.6%6:00 · Guy 36.4% · guest 63.6%6:00 · Guy 36.4% · guest 63.6%9:00 · Guy 38.6% · guest 61.4%9:00 · Guy 38.6% · guest 61.4%12:00 · Guy 39.8% · guest 60.2%12:00 · Guy 39.8% · guest 60.2%15:00 · Guy 42.6% · guest 57.4%15:00 · Guy 42.6% · guest 57.4%18:00 · Guy 79.6% · guest 20.4%18:00 · Guy 79.6% · guest 20.4%21:00 · Guy 39.1% · guest 60.9%21:00 · Guy 39.1% · guest 60.9%24:00 · Guy 32.3% · guest 67.7%24:00 · Guy 32.3% · guest 67.7%27:00 · Guy 19.8% · guest 80.2%27:00 · Guy 19.8% · guest 80.2%30:00 · Guy 27.5% · guest 72.5%30:00 · Guy 27.5% · guest 72.5%33:00 · Guy 41.1% · guest 58.9%33:00 · Guy 41.1% · guest 58.9%36:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%36:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:50 Brian corrects host on business school level

In a very collegial episode, Brian immediately interrupts to clarify that he went to undergraduate business school rather than graduate business school.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 29:14 Guy challenges consumer adherence to pasta cooking stickers

Guy pushes back on Banza's emergency strategy, pointing out that consumers rarely read cooking labels and default to boiling water.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 34:33 Cauê reveals turning down Wegmans out of ignorance

Cauê catches Guy off guard by explaining that rather than capacity constraints, he initially rejected Wegmans multiple times simply because he did not know who they were.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 15:22 Guy contextualizes the rise of Brazilian commodity imports

Guy displays deep industry knowledge by citing the 2000s coconut water wars, Zico, Vita Coco, and Sambazon acai as the exact precedent for Barnana's model.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Becca Milstein: The Origins and Spark for Fishwife 4100 Guy demonstrates familiarity with Iberian conserva culture, discussing tapas and pickled peppers in Spain and Portugal. Becca confirms this background and elaborates on how her lockdown diet led to founding Fishwife.
Brian Rudolph: Transforming Dietary Restrictions into Chickpea Pasta 4211 Guy displays knowledge of gluten-free diet substitutions such as corn and rice pasta. Brian provides nutritional detail on chickpeas and politely clarifies that his business degree was undergraduate.
Cauê Suplicy: Triathlon Fuel and the Barnana Vision 5200 Guy shows industry depth by highlighting the rise of Brazilian CPG commodities like Vita Coco, Zico, and Sambazon acai. Cauê explains how his athletic career and childhood macrobiotic diet shaped Barnana.
Sponsor Message: Growing Customer Relationships with Klaviyo 0000 Monologue sponsor message for Klaviyo delivered by the host. Scored zero across all dynamic categories.
Becca Milstein: Sourcing, Illustration, and Direct-to-Consumer Strategy 4200 Guy explores Becca's distinctive brand positioning and DTC-first strategy. Cauê chimes in to validate the necessity of DTC given the pandemic-era retail shutdown.
Brian Rudolph: Scaling Banza and Overcoming Production Failure 5312 Guy probes the manufacturing complexity of pasta extrusion and challenges the riskiness of modifying cooking instructions. Brian recounts how Banza survived an early production failure with temporary repackaging stickers.
Cauê Suplicy: Launching Barnana and Debuting at Expo West 4400 Guy identifies Natural Products Expo West and Wegmans. Cauê educates the host with an anecdote about accidentally turning down Wegmans three times due to not knowing what the chain was.

Statements from this episode (8)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Milstein: Premium tinned fish lacked a unifying brand despite early adopters
“It was clear to me that there were a lot of people that were really excited about it, like a nice base of early adopters that were hyper passionate about Tinfish and Conservas, but the only place you could get it would be, you know, a small specialty shop, and…”
Becca Milstein Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 5:17
Assertion Supported
Rudolph: Rice and corn pasta lack nutrient density compared to wheat
“What I started to recognize though is rice and corn pasta. They have often even less nutrient density than traditional pasta.”
Brian Rudolph Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 7:44
Insight
Suplicy: Coconut water and açaí succeeded by premiumizing Brazilian commodity foods
“After seeing coconut water and acai become very popular, what I noticed is they were Brazilian commodities. Then now we're sold as premium products because like you mentioned it in Brazil, if I went to a run at the park, I went to the beach, there was a old VW…”
Cauê Suplicy Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 16:05
Opinion
Milstein: Canned fish category lacked brand appeal, flavors, and species diversity
“The canned fish category, it was lacking basically everything. It was lacking, you know, diversity in the species. It was lacking flavors, but the most clear thing that it was lacking was any brand that was interesting, beautiful, compelling to customers.”
Becca Milstein Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 21:37
Assertion Partly supported
Rudolph: Chickpea pasta did not exist commercially prior to Banza
“Chickpea pasta did not exist, so there was no precedent for manufacturing it”
Brian Rudolph Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 25:30
Insight
Rudolph: Chickpea pasta manufacturing requires far more precision than corn or rice
“Making chickpea pasta is really hard. You have to be very precise in a way that you don't need to be with corn or rice”
Brian Rudolph Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 27:39
Disclosure
Banza manually stickered 20,000 retail boxes with revised cooking instructions
“We ended up stickering 20,000 boxes, shipping them out the next two days later.”
Brian Rudolph Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 28:49
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Suplicy: Barnana rejected grocery chain Wegmans three times before accepting an order
“I actually said no to Wegmans three times.”
Cauê Suplicy Oct 18, 2024 ▶ 34:35
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