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Jan 23, 2025 · 49m · how-i-built-this

Advice Line with Katlin Smith of Simple Mills

Guy Raz · 18m spoken Katlin Smith · 10m spoken Tim Taves · 6m spoken Marissa Gurdian · 5m spoken Scott Vandenbroekie · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this Advice Line episode of How I Built This Lab, host Guy Raz and Simple Mills founder Katlin Smith mentor early-stage entrepreneurs on scaling challenges, manufacturing roadblocks, and targeted marketing. Combining expert analysis with lessons from Katlin's journey from kitchen startup to an $800 million acquisition, the episode delivers essential frameworks for building resilient consumer brands.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 41.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 6.7 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 1.0 Guy pushing back 3.3
05100:0015:0030:0045:006:13–18:06 · Guy as informed peer 6/10 Advice for Upcycle Foods on Manufacturing and Scaling Guy actively challenges Scott's initial focus on pretzels, suggesting he should pivot to easier, scalable spent-grain products like dog treats or shelf-stable mixes. Katlin backs up Guy's advice by explaining the manufacturing complexities of alternative ingredients based on her own Simple Mills experience.18:23–31:42 · Guy as informed peer 7/10 Advice for Grumpy Dad Sauce Company on Going All-In Guy gives tactical business feedback, checking Tim's website live, critiquing its lack of ordering capability, and instructing him to have his kids build an off-the-shelf Shopify site. Both Guy and Katlin encourage Tim to commit fully while setting up practical financial runway.31:55–46:20 · Guy as informed peer 7/10 Advice for Sweet Paws on Focused Product Marketing Guy provides a detailed case study from Boll & Branch to advise Marissa on high-intimacy niche podcast ad spend rather than broad social ads. Katlin provides complementary retail and platform-native advice on optimizing Chewy sponsored listings.6:13–18:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Advice for Upcycle Foods on Manufacturing and Scaling Guy actively challenges Scott's initial focus on pretzels, suggesting he should pivot to easier, scalable spent-grain products like dog treats or shelf-stable mixes. Katlin backs up Guy's advice by explaining the manufacturing complexities of alternative ingredients based on her own Simple Mills experience.18:23–31:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 Advice for Grumpy Dad Sauce Company on Going All-In Guy gives tactical business feedback, checking Tim's website live, critiquing its lack of ordering capability, and instructing him to have his kids build an off-the-shelf Shopify site. Both Guy and Katlin encourage Tim to commit fully while setting up practical financial runway.31:55–46:20 · Guest teaching 3/10 Advice for Sweet Paws on Focused Product Marketing Guy provides a detailed case study from Boll & Branch to advise Marissa on high-intimacy niche podcast ad spend rather than broad social ads. Katlin provides complementary retail and platform-native advice on optimizing Chewy sponsored listings.6:13–18:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advice for Upcycle Foods on Manufacturing and Scaling Guy actively challenges Scott's initial focus on pretzels, suggesting he should pivot to easier, scalable spent-grain products like dog treats or shelf-stable mixes. Katlin backs up Guy's advice by explaining the manufacturing complexities of alternative ingredients based on her own Simple Mills experience.18:23–31:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advice for Grumpy Dad Sauce Company on Going All-In Guy gives tactical business feedback, checking Tim's website live, critiquing its lack of ordering capability, and instructing him to have his kids build an off-the-shelf Shopify site. Both Guy and Katlin encourage Tim to commit fully while setting up practical financial runway.31:55–46:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advice for Sweet Paws on Focused Product Marketing Guy provides a detailed case study from Boll & Branch to advise Marissa on high-intimacy niche podcast ad spend rather than broad social ads. Katlin provides complementary retail and platform-native advice on optimizing Chewy sponsored listings.6:13–18:06 · Guy pushing back 4/10 Advice for Upcycle Foods on Manufacturing and Scaling Guy actively challenges Scott's initial focus on pretzels, suggesting he should pivot to easier, scalable spent-grain products like dog treats or shelf-stable mixes. Katlin backs up Guy's advice by explaining the manufacturing complexities of alternative ingredients based on her own Simple Mills experience.18:23–31:42 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Advice for Grumpy Dad Sauce Company on Going All-In Guy gives tactical business feedback, checking Tim's website live, critiquing its lack of ordering capability, and instructing him to have his kids build an off-the-shelf Shopify site. Both Guy and Katlin encourage Tim to commit fully while setting up practical financial runway.31:55–46:20 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Advice for Sweet Paws on Focused Product Marketing Guy provides a detailed case study from Boll & Branch to advise Marissa on high-intimacy niche podcast ad spend rather than broad social ads. Katlin provides complementary retail and platform-native advice on optimizing Chewy sponsored listings.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 80% · guest 20%0:00 · Guy 80% · guest 20%3:00 · Guy 34% · guest 66%3:00 · Guy 34% · guest 66%6:00 · Guy 39.8% · guest 60.2%6:00 · Guy 39.8% · guest 60.2%9:00 · Guy 6.9% · guest 93.1%9:00 · Guy 6.9% · guest 93.1%12:00 · Guy 54.6% · guest 45.4%12:00 · Guy 54.6% · guest 45.4%15:00 · Guy 22.9% · guest 77.1%15:00 · Guy 22.9% · guest 77.1%18:00 · Guy 39.6% · guest 60.4%18:00 · Guy 39.6% · guest 60.4%21:00 · Guy 12.1% · guest 87.9%21:00 · Guy 12.1% · guest 87.9%24:00 · Guy 13.9% · guest 86.1%24:00 · Guy 13.9% · guest 86.1%27:00 · Guy 59% · guest 41%27:00 · Guy 59% · guest 41%30:00 · Guy 69.3% · guest 30.7%30:00 · Guy 69.3% · guest 30.7%33:00 · Guy 30.4% · guest 69.6%33:00 · Guy 30.4% · guest 69.6%36:00 · Guy 7.8% · guest 92.2%36:00 · Guy 7.8% · guest 92.2%39:00 · Guy 41.3% · guest 58.7%39:00 · Guy 41.3% · guest 58.7%42:00 · Guy 60.2% · guest 39.8%42:00 · Guy 60.2% · guest 39.8%45:00 · Guy 61.8% · guest 38.2%45:00 · Guy 61.8% · guest 38.2%48:00 · Guy 89.1% · guest 10.9%48:00 · Guy 89.1% · guest 10.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:07 Scott explains the difficulty of convincing co-manufacturers

In a very polite advice-session format, this represents the highest friction when Scott notes standard manufacturers resisted taking on his non-standard upcycled ingredient.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 12:40 Guy questions the fundamental viability of starting with pretzels

Guy interrupts the premise of seeking a pretzel co-packer, challenging Scott on whether the pretzel product itself is the core obstacle to scaling.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:37 Katlin explains manufacturing friction for new alternative ingredients

Katlin educates the caller and host on how simple flour blending mixes are far easier to co-pack than extruded crackers or baked goods.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 42:37 Guy shares marketing insights and podcast ROI case study

Guy draws upon extensive founder interview knowledge, citing Boll & Branch's aggressive ad spend strategy to recommend niche pet podcast marketing.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Advice for Upcycle Foods on Manufacturing and Scaling 6314 Guy actively challenges Scott's initial focus on pretzels, suggesting he should pivot to easier, scalable spent-grain products like dog treats or shelf-stable mixes. Katlin backs up Guy's advice by explaining the manufacturing complexities of alternative ingredients based on her own Simple Mills experience.
Advice for Grumpy Dad Sauce Company on Going All-In 7213 Guy gives tactical business feedback, checking Tim's website live, critiquing its lack of ordering capability, and instructing him to have his kids build an off-the-shelf Shopify site. Both Guy and Katlin encourage Tim to commit fully while setting up practical financial runway.
Advice for Sweet Paws on Focused Product Marketing 7313 Guy provides a detailed case study from Boll & Branch to advise Marissa on high-intimacy niche podcast ad spend rather than broad social ads. Katlin provides complementary retail and platform-native advice on optimizing Chewy sponsored listings.

Statements from this episode (7)

Assertion Supported
Simple Mills Is #1 Natural Cracker, Cookie, and Baking Brand
“Today we are the number one largest natural cracker, cookie, and baking mix brand in the natural channel”
Katlin Smith Jan 23, 2025 ▶ 2:46
Disclosure
Smith sold her car and maxed credit cards to fund Simple Mills
“I definitely had to do some very creative things on my own side to fund the business. So selling my car and maxing out credit cards and crazy things like that.”
Katlin Smith Jan 23, 2025 ▶ 3:37
Insight
Design food products to fit existing co-manufacturer equipment, Smith advises
“How do you lean into what naturally contract manufacturers want to do? And so what products naturally come out of that? So you're not trying to get them to do something that's too weird or too hard for their model.”
Katlin Smith Jan 23, 2025 ▶ 15:50
Insight
Dry blending is easier to co-manufacture than alternative baking, says Smith
“Finding a manufacturer who's willing to blend together flowers is a lot easier than finding a manufacturer who's willing to make a cracker out of an alternative ingredient. And so it's kind of starting at a place that's a little bit easier and then moving to t…”
Katlin Smith Jan 23, 2025 ▶ 16:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Grumpy Dad Sauce sold out first batch via Facebook fan groups
“My first year, twenty-twenty-one, I sold every last bottle I made online just through marketing over a couple of different Facebook hot sauce fan groups and sold to 38 states and just kind of went from there.”
Tim Taves Jan 23, 2025 ▶ 21:32
Disclosure
Chewy retains roughly 20 percent of vendor payments for marketing rebates
“And part of our arrangement with them, I think, 20% of our payment from Chewy goes back to them as a rebate for marketing.”
Marissa Gurdian Jan 23, 2025 ▶ 40:32
Assertion Supported
Flowers Foods plans to acquire Simple Mills for nearly $800 million
“I also want to share that just this month, Simple Mills announced plans to be acquired by Flowers Foods for almost eight hundred million dollars. Caitlin will continue to lead the brand, and if the name of that company, Flower Foods, sounds familiar, it's beca…”
Guy Raz Jan 23, 2025 ▶ 48:27
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